Vegan breastfeeding has caused an 11-month-old baby to die and the parents are charged with neglect after an autopsy indicated the baby suffered from severe deficiencies in Vitamin B12 and Vitamin A. Both these nutrients are known to be critical to a child’s development and sorely lacking in a vegan diet. This is why doctors strongly advise against nursing mothers and growing children following a vegan diet (1).
Vegans have long been advised to take B12 supplements as long term veganism runs the huge risk of serious B12 deficiency as well as other nutrients only found in animal foods such as true Vitamin A. Â Beta carotene is not true vitamin AÂ nor does it easily convert to adequate amounts of Vitamin A in the body to sustain optimal health.
While charging the parents in this tragedy is questionable as it smacks of too much interference by government into private life, it does communicate a clear message to other vegans:Â abstinence from all animal foods is a danger to one’s health and most particularly, your baby!
It also sends a clear message that what a nursing Mother eats definitely DOES affect the quality of her breastmilk, particularly with vegan breastfeeding. Many breastfeeding advocates insist that breastmilk will include all a baby needs despite what the Mother eats, but clearly this is not the case.
Traditional cultures took great care to ensure that pregnant and breastfeeding mothers consumed ample amounts of animal foods rich in vitamins A, D, E, K2 and of course B12. These foods included grass-fed butter, pastured eggs, liver, seafood, and fish eggs. Notice that none – NOT ONE of these traditionally sacred foods is plant-based!
Incidentally, the 2017 vegan film What The Health was unable to cite a single successful vegan population group either. Why? Because there are none. Ever.
If you are pregnant and breastfeeding and would like to learn what foods will maximally support the health of your baby while nursing, please check this link for the complete listing of traditionally sacred foods for optimal fetal and baby development. These foods will also ensure the preservation of your own health during pregnancy and lactation which can easily deplete a Mother’s nutritional stores leaving her vulnerable to exhaustion.
Vegan Parents Convicted
The vegan breastfeeding mother and father whose baby died as described in this article were convicted by a French court to 5 years in prison due to the imbalanced vegan diet the mother ate which led to nutrient-poor breastmilk and a failure to thrive child who eventually fell ill from severe nutrient deficiency and died without the parents ever seeking proper medical attention (source).
For more information on how vegan breastfeeding and also a vegan diet devastate the health of children, read about how a 12-year-old vegan was diagnosed with the degenerating bones of an 80-year-old.  Dr. Faisal Ahmed MD, a pediatrician treating the child, said that the dangers of forcing children to follow a strict vegan diet need to be publicized.
Unfortunately, vegan parents don’t seem to be getting the message quickly enough. The latest case involves vegans who nearly starved their 5-month-old baby to death feeding him potato mash instead of the doctor advised organic formula.
The child, who weighed just over 8 pounds and had sunken eyes and protruding ribs, is recovering but will likely suffer long-term damage from the experience (source).
References
Angelina Jolie says veganism nearly killed her
Supersize Me Girlfriend Quits VeganismÂ
Vitamin A Vagary
Vitamin B12: Vital Nutrient for Good Health
French vegan couple whose baby died of vitamin deficiency after being fed solely on breast milk face jail for child neglect
Oh, this is sooo sad. I cannot imagine the pain of the mother when she one day faces her failure. It is so important to remind folks that vegans have to artificially incorporate so many nutrients (stripped from natural sources) in order to survive. More people need to see this and read it and pass it on so that fewer children suffer and die. I have your feed on my blog’s home page so I am doing my part.
A tragedy all around. Heartbreaking.
Educate yourself… my prayers go out to those parents.
Oh this breaks my heart! Perhaps they did think they were doing what was best for the baby but once you see that your child is not thriving you would think they would realize their error!!!
This is such a heart breaking story. I feel sorry for the parents who were probably trying their best but were simply misinformed.
Vegans tend to get defensive when it comes to nutritional attacks. So I avoid the debates and instead sell the benefits of kimchi and other fermented veggies as a source of Vitamin B12 and K2. I try and keep the discussion positive, so I share this post with those that don’t eat like us: If I Were Still A Vegetarian….
MAS do you know the ingredients in kimchi? I do. Most contain saeujeot shrimp sauce, or aekjeot fish sauce. My family has eaten kimchi since I met my children’s father. He is of Japanese/American heritage and was raised in Japan. Although kimchi is a Korean condiment, it has been part of the Japanese diet for some time.
My vegan daughter doesn’t eat it. Worcestershire sauce also contains fish oils..please don’t take lightly the intellect of vegans. When you suggest Kimchi to a vegan, they will check the label and you lose your case.
I learned this as a mom of an adult vegan and I totally lost credibility in my argument against her diet.
Andrea – Yes, parents of diabetic and obese children ARE being charged with neglect and having their kids taken away. Not all of them, but it is happening now and has been for at least the last 6 years that I know of. I agree with Sarah that it smacks too much of Big Brother. The government doesn’t always know what is best for people and are no better equipped to raise a healthy child than the average parent. Take a look at the WIC program.
The current understanding of nutrition by scientists and doctors is constantly changing. The only ones who have a clue are those who have abandoned the idea that they can unlock some mystery behind our bad health, instead looking to knowledge of traditional cultures that never had these problems to deal with in the first place. Unfortunately vegans are among those who keep ignoring history and think they can do a better job of figuring things out.
Here in the states they have taken obese kids from families only to find out that the mother wasnt to blame. its either hormonal or that others slip the child fiood that the mother does not authorise cause they think its “child neglect” if you refuse a cookie or cake to the child. hopefully one day they will all just reeducate the parents while running tests to see if there is another reason fo rthem to be that way. there are kids BORN with diabeties and yet they are all lumped into the neglect catagory. if your liver isnt produceing insulin it can be from a whole list of things that are going on with the body.
The liver doesn’t produce insulin.
I feel so sorry for those parents. They probably thought they were giving their child the best (come on – that’s the only reason anyone could be vegan, it’s not for the taste of the diet!) and they slowly starved their child instead. Our government is to blame for this. They lead everyone to believe that low fat, high carb is great and that veggies are the best source of nutrition – with those recommendations, a vegan diet seems very healthy! Now they want to charge the parents. Do they ever do anything about parents whose kids are diabetic and obese because of their diet? Food for thought. These parents need to be educated, not condemned.
WELL SAID, Andrea!!
I also feel sorry for these parents. They thought they were doing what was best for their child. Imagine the guilt they must feel.
Besides the Government, we have people like the trainers on Biggest Loser and others telling people to, for example, skip on the “walnut oil” because it’s fattening and other such nonsense.
My thoughts and prayers go out to this family.
Government my eye! Vegans are vegans becaue of their own mental lies that they believe. Eating animals is wrong is the start of that lie. Not eating animal produced products is the next. The government does not promote that.
The scary thing about this, is that this happened in FRANCE. The place we look up to as enlightened on fat. And, according to a commenter on John Durant’s post about this, some parents in the EU are charged with neglect when their children are obese.
How about taking some personal responsibility and not blaming it on the government. When are people going to grow up and take responsibility for their own lives and actions! If you blame things like the biggest loser then you are the one who is losing by subscribing the the things you call bad in those shows.
No one said the alternative was for the “american diet” @Briana April 4, 2011 at 6:59 pm. There are people out there that don’t eat the “american diet”, you are obviously from America and think that the world revolves around you, just a small bit of reality for you,…….it doesn’t! How can you be so naive to think that the only alternative to Veganism is Americanism. Get off your high horse.
BTW
Sarah, please edit out comments like the one from
(MikeOverHere October 5, 2011 at 4:16 am) Its just heartbreakingly disgusting that human beings can talk like this, its just disheartening that this is the level humanity has stooped to.
The parents were convicted in a French court, I’m thinking this has nothing to do with the American gov’t.
It is indeed a very story, but the baby’s death was preventable. Soon to be mothers get educated while pregnant, but this in particular mother chose to have an unhealthy diet for breast feeding. And even if it was to the “vegan” diet per say, a mother knows that their child is getting enough brestmilk and thriving. I absolutely agree that even obese children is neglect and their parents should also bro blame…. There is always someone to be blamed when a child dies from being malnourished or from obesity. There are many many resources out there from mothers, lack of education is notto blame for this horrific tragedy, just pure selfishness. Babies NEED to be fed properly, and if they cannot get it from their mother, their is formula for a reason. This whole vegan spill is just aother form of religion and it’s unfair that parents are forcing it on pure innocent babies. No excuess when it comes to a child’s death that has to do with their diet, none.
Take away the BF and vegan aspect. If a formula fed baby (though of course significantly less likely to be deficient in Vitamin A and B12) were not started on solids and died at a measly 12 lbs they would definitely still be and should be charged with neglect.
Kate – just FYI, 12lbs at 11mos is a totally appropriate weight. Plot it on a growth curve.
Hi Trina .. 12 lbs at 11 months old is not even on the growth curve. My daughter was 17 lbs at 11 months and she was in the 5% !! 12 lbs at that age is completely malnourished.
Unless.. did anyone check…. was the baby born to early… already have problem because of that… weight was very little like many preemies…. not saying this the case but that thought came to mind. Also I’m vegetarian, I do eat eggs. Raw too, which shocks sooo many people i know because of the FDA saying samenilia. believe what you will but Vegan diet was mans first diet in beginning of time. I’m also 7 months and doing great and will breastfeed. and give egg yolk as first food. If dead animals are given when baby ready for that daddy has to make it.
The “growth curve” is a database formed on the study of white, formula-fed babies from Wisconsin. As everyone knows, breast-fed babies weight less than formula-fed, because they’re not fed cows milk from the beginning. Cows are meant to multiply their weight 10X in the first year, which is why cows milk makes babies grow so big. Cows milk is for baby cows. Not for baby humans.
Comparing your child to this poor example of ‘normal’ weight is nonsense. If the baby looks healthy, and has those normal lovable baby rolls, who cares what their weight is.
My baby, who is a vegan child now, is healthy, has perfect blood levels of every nutrient and performs well in school. Being vegan means that we must be diligent to feed a very wide variety of fruits and vegetables, but we are healthy and so is she.
Not every vegan is the same. It works for us, and we enjoy it. We all need to have the class and respect not to judge each other on very basic details of every day life.
Both my step-siblings were BORN over 10 lbs, and my stepmom was UNDER weight while pregnant (not due to malnourishment, her metabolism was just high), my stepbrother was 2 oz shy of 11 pounds. A lot of people I know in California and Utah were born around 9-10 pounds, generally you’d hope them to be more than 1 pound heavier after being alive for a year…
We’ll here’s the growth curve for breastfed infants: 12 lb = 5.44 kg. Nope. Not even on the growth curve. So, no, according to WHO it’s not a “totally appropriate” weight.
I’m sorry, ladies. I was thinking in kilos! 12kg would have been totally appropriate, but 12lbs most definitely isn’t.
Normally I don’t like calling people idiots, but you, trina, are an idiot. 12 lbs at 11 months is absolutely NOT an appropriate weight! My six month old daughter weighed in at 14 lbs at her four month appointment and was in the 47th percentile – dead average for a four month old. There is absolutely nothing normal or appropriate about an 11 month old baby who only weighs 12 lbs. Clearly this baby was grossly underfed, and the parents should definitely be charged. Only a complete moron or total ideologue has an 11 month old baby die from failing to thrive. There is no way her doctor didn’t tell them their baby needed more nutrition than her breast milk alone was providing, and clearly she did not listen to her doctor because she’s too blinded by adhering to her lifestyle choice to grasp the concept of inadequate nutrition, and that it will KILL A BABY!!! As other posters have said, when you put your ideology above your child’s health and well being, then that is straight up neglect and you should absolutely be charged when your baby dies.
12 pounds at 2-4 months is a totally appropriate weight.
trina, 12 pounds at 11 months is on the growth curve, if you happen to be a small breed of dog.
Oh wow…. 12lbs at almost 1year old is normal?? Oh geeze, so let me guess… A baby born 1 pounds at birth is obese? This statement is absolutely ignorant and so not true. 12 lbs at 11 or 12 months old is under weight and considered malnourished.
I meant a baby born at 10 lbs is obese?
This made me so angry reading it a few days ago. Of course, when I posted it all of my vegetarian/ vegan friends argued that the parents were just being idiotic with their diet and OF COURSE it wasn’t the veganism.
Ummmm… that baby was severely deficient in B12 and Vitamin A. Where do we get those two vitamins??? How do you NOT blame it on the vegan diet? Ughhh so frustrating and tragic. It just pisses me off that someone will put their crazy ethical agendas over and above their children’s health.
Hi AshleyRoz,
You’re so right! Also, the activator X that Dr. Price highly emphasized in his book is needed for the absorption of minerals, which is only found in high quality animal foods like butter, eggs, and fish eggs.
When someone’s malnourished enough to die, I think one would naturally find that the person is deficient in a lot of vitamins.This poor child should also have been started on solid foods months before.
This sounds like a case of failure to thrive and an inappropriate, probably neglectful parental response. Failure to thrive happens to breastfed children, no matter what their mothers eat. It happens to formula-fed children. It happens to toddlers. It’s very common in preemies.
People who don’t know anything about this case shouldn’t jump to conclusions. There are lots of babies breastfed by vegan mothers who are just fine.
I think this comment thread is in need of more information and less opinions.
Just because modern-day veganism may result in B12 deficiency, doesn’t mean that vegan diets are unnatural. B12 used to be most abundant in the diet from produce sources, because it is produced by naturally-occurring nitrogen-fixing bacteria; and only the B12 that comes directly from these bacteria are actually biologically active. (http://drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm).
Modern-day agriculture and pesticide use strips produce of these bacteria, so the natural and most abundant source for human consumption has been virtually eradicated in developed nations, secondary to agro-business.
Secondly, Vitamin A is abundant in a well-rounded vegan diet. Excellent sources include sweet potatoes, kale, spinach, broccoli, dandelion greens, carrots, pumpkin, collard greens, cantaloupe, papaya, apricot, mango, peas, and tomatoes.
This article screams sensationalist.
Carrie, even if the mother ate the food you listed in your Vitamin A plant-based paragraph, it would not have been enough for the child, because the mother would have required that as well. It’s just not enough in those foods. However, as the poster you replied to pointed out, that child should have been on solid foods, supplemented by the breastfeeding, by the age of 6-8 months, not still being fed EXCLUSIVELY by breastfeeding at 11 months of age. The same foods that you listed would have provided the baby with the Vitamin A that the baby required, and Mom wouldn’t have had her own stores depleted.
Kodster, actually, solids are often not required before the age of one year. A baby *can* start a 6mo, but not all are ready at this time; before 1 is optional except in one case – Iron deficiency.
Kodster, it isn’t unusual for mothers to exclusively breastfeed children up to 12 months if there are a lot of food allergies in the family. It’s suggested within the medical community to allow for the child’s gut to strengthen prior to introducing solid food.
Funny thing is, there is formula for a reason… it’s exactly for stupid people, because nursing your child while you are vegan is stupid. Adults can choose to be vegan, but to make your child do the same is abuse. Vegans can try a justify their diets, but there is no substituting for newborns and infants. Vegans are just as bad as religious people, pushing their beliefs onto others. This story sickens me, it was 100% preventable.
A voice of reason. Thank you!
It screams French Drama. The French prosecuted and convicted the parents and gave them 5 years in prison. So much for the article screaming sensationalism.
Thankyou for knowing your stuff and doing you’re homework.
Humans are naturally omnivores. Make an ethical or economic argument if you want, but don’t try to tell us a vegan diet is natural. It clearly isn’t and human history and biology both attest to this.
Amen sister. I’m not 100% vegan but have been a vegetarian for 17 years and am raising my very healthy son as a vegetarian. Thanks for posting some rationality in this ill informed conversation
I exclusively breastfed 2 of my kids for nearly a year. No issue with nutrition b/c MY nutrition was good/stable/balanced.
Obviously, a vegan diet in general is not a balanced diet. And b/c of all the things your body requires to feed an infant, there is nearly no way to sustain another person with that type of limited diet.
Juicing! Juicing 5-10 lbs of fruits and vegetables along with 3 regular meals a day would give you all the vitamins and minerals the body needs. Himalayan Pink Crystal Salt has all 84 minerals in its purest form readily absorbed by the human digestive system.
What this article fails to mention is How Much Meat to Eat in a day, the TYPE of Meat they Cook and HOW they Cook their Meat.. 4-6oz of beef or chicken is all the body needs for Vitamin B12. Organic (hormone-free and antibiotic-free) Pasture raised Grass-Fed Beef and Organic Range-Fed Chicken is what we should be eating! Baking & Frying in Olive Oil is how you should cook it and avoid all other oils unless it is unrefined.. Avoid Barbecuing & Deep-Frying Meats as they are both Carcinogenic (causes cancer).
there is only modern day veganism. there’s never been any vegan culture. any apparent vegan like diets are starving peasant diets where people can’t get more that whatever they’re subsisting on and all those ” indigenous,ethnic diets” vegans like to go on about will contain animal foods if/when people can get them.
the vegan version aren’t the real thing.
The child is dead because the mother is an idiot who malnourished her child in favor of her own selfish choices. That’s not “sensationalist”, it’s neglect.
Modern pesticides do not trip vitamins from foods, not to mention the fact that most vegans shop at organic and pesticide free stores that carry usually local vegetables. The issue isn’t with the vegan diet, its more on how imposing it on others “mainly a baby” can be detrimental to its health. Children and especially babies need a specific level of body fat in order to grow, vegan diets offer little of the necessary amino acids or fats and thus must be taken via supplement, which is not always the most effective delivery mechanism. The fact is when you have a child, sometimes your principles are less important than their health
Absolutely right L.
There are a lot of choices parents just have to make when raising a baby. As long as it doesn’t harm the baby, parents can make their choices. Choosing to not feed their baby with cow milk and meat products is just one of these choises. There is no harm in it. There is harm however when the parents don’t take care with the damn B12 or any other vitamins.
This (as always) is not about being vegan or not. It is about taking the care with the alimentation of the kid. The problem was the vitamins B12 and A, and is not a problem for vegan diet (see the Carrie’s comment). The problem is when parents don’t take care of their kids properly, and there are vegan idiots as much as there non-vegan idiot parents.
Dying because of improper alimentation can happen with anyone, vegan or not. But you know…when a vegan dies people always say it’s because he was vegan, and not because he is human.
Not true at all! I breastfed my son until he was a year old and I found I was pregnant for my daughter. I breastfed my daughter until she was 11 months old. They were both VERY healthy and neither had even the sniffles, much less sick, until over a month after I had stopped breastfeeding.
The truth is – a person is what they eat. If you eat healthy – you are healthy. If you eat crappy – your health is crappy.
I believe you. I stopped breast feeding my daughter due to my work schedule. A month later she got sick.
I’m in a baby group with women who had babies all born in the same month and A LOT of the breastfed babies and have been much more ill than the bottle fed ones so just because your child is breast fed it doesn’t make them any less likely to get a cold or get sick.
The reason why more federal protections for breastfeeding mothers have been created over the last 3 years is because there is definitive proof that breastfed babies are statistically less prone to illness. This does not mean they do not get sick at all. Environmental factors are also important in whether a child will get sick. A small sample anecdotal observation sample is not enough to determine that formula fed children are just as protected from illness. This is simply not true if you compare the immunological benefits of breastmilk to formula.
It wasn’t failure to thrive or the AUTOPSY would have declared it so. It was a vitamin deficiency. Why is that hard for you to accept?
Do you know what Failure to thrive means?
:used in both pediatric and adult medicine, as well as veterinary medicine (where it is also referred to as ill thrift) indicates insufficient weight gain or inappropriate weight loss.
READ the update:
“*Update: The vegan parents whose baby died as described in this article were convicted by a French court to 5 years in prison due to the imbalanced vegan diet the mother ate which led to nutrient poor breastmilk and a failure to thrive child who eventually fell ill from severe nutrient deficiency and died without the parents ever seeking proper medical attention.”
Amber, they find accepting the autopsy difficult because the autopsy is based on SCIENCE and not on political opportunism.
There is absolutely no reason to not have started this child on solid food, that in itself is neglectful. I’m sorry but this was not a case of failure to thrive it was two parents so intent on living out their lifestyle choices that they ignored certain biological imperatives, like teeth being an indicator of rediness for solid food and the fact that the new born liver only has enough iron for 6-7 months since breast milk does not supply iron. again the major reason that teeth come in about that time and children begin to eat solid food
Teeth alone are NOT an indicator of readiness for solid food. Some babies are born with teeth or get them really early (my first baby got several at four months, two months before the recommended age to start solids) and others get them late. Signs of readiness include an ability to sit up (so they don’t choke), no longer having a tongue thrust reflex and showing an interest in food. It doesn’t have much to do with teeth.
Also, breast milk DOES supply iron. There is not much of it, but it is there and very available/easy to absorb compared with other sources.
And as stated above, a history of allergies in a family can be a reason to delay solids (though it doesn’t sound like that was the case with this family).
That is incorrect. You CAN start infants on solid foods as of 6 months. But exclusively breastfeeding until the age of one year is perfectly acceptable. Teeth are not an indicator of solid readiness: there is a reason why they are called “milk teeth”. Also incorrect is your statement that breastmilk does not provide iron. It most certainly does. If there IS indication of an iron deficiency, which is often related to an iron deficiency in mom, there are iron supplements available for mom and baby: over the counter.
You really shouldn’t just spout off at the mouth and speak as though you’re presenting facts when you’re just guessing… and guessing incorrectly.Teeth isn’t indicative of readiness. There are a lot of factors to consider, and teeth isn’t one of them. Breastmilk DOES contain iron. Some babies are born with teeth. My son had a bunch at 4 months. Some have none at 10 months. They have nothing to do with solids.
I think it’s just better all the way around to just give babies formula to make sure their getting enough, but anny hooo As for the solid foods I think it just depends on the kids, cause my daughter started trying solid foods bye 4 months of age, with out teeth, she didnt get no teeth for a while.
I just have to comment on this reply: “.This poor child should also have been started on solid foods months before.”
Do some more research before posting information like this. My son is 11 month old and just started eating “solids” last month. He still gets more breast milk than anything else. I know several parents who don’t start solids until their children are 12 months old.
My son is very healthy and happy. Don’t believe everything you hear.
Thats all well and good except the autopsy, you know the thing they do that determines cause of death, said the baby died specifically from a deficiency of certain vitamins which are absent in a vegan diet; So if the mother is consuming this diet and then breast feeding and the child isn’t absorbing this nutrients you think there’s no correlation? How?
There might be lots of babies that are fine, but clearly there are some that are not; and how many have to die from this correlation before it’s declared unsafe?
You’re misinformed. Solids arent necessary until after one. Regardless, the baby still would have had a vegan diet.
YOU are giving a misinformed opinion. Babies cut TEETH and fully break them in around 6 months. WHY? because nature says they need SOLID FOOD! This PC bither is nothing more than that! And NO! Vegan diets are not natural. EVERY animal that is strictly vegetarian has was to process it. We do not!
“M” you’re wrong, dear. Bless your heart. Some infants are with teeth.. Are they ready for solids? No. My son had teeth at four months… Does that mean he was ready for solids? No.
There is a lot more to readiness than teeth.
I’d like to respond to the rest of your rant, however it is incoherent, so I cant.
I agree that theres probably more to this case then what is written here. The picture shows that the baby looks plump and healthy. I suspect there were other issues going on….there are many babies breastfed by vegan moms that are thriving. Its a tragic situation and from my perspective I feel for the parents loss of a child and on top of their loss they are being slapped in the face by the legal system. Again, I don’t know all the information about the case. Sad for the baby, sad for the parents.
Actually, there’s a common saying, “Food before 1 is just for fun.” Babies under 12 months of age do not NEED solid foods before then unless there is severe weight or other health issues. Assuming the mother’s diet is adequate (obviously not in this case), breastmilk up to 1 year of age is perfectly normal and common in other parts of the world.
i’m wondering is the child had any well child visits, and if so, why no one noticed anything amiss.
Exactly! I breastfed and chose not to vaccinate and still took my children in for well child checks to make sure their weight was good and there was proper development. I do wonder, though, if the baby had some sort of defect that didn’t allow it to process those vitamins. Still, this could have been prevented had they taken the child to the doctor. I understand wanting to exclusively breastfeed your child for a year, but there comes a point in time where you have to put your own desires aside for the welfare of your child.
AMEN!! 🙂 Please let me also add, that it’s a shame that when something major happens to a marginalized group (like this TRAGEDY) stereotyping of that group seems to immediately happen. Meanwhile, traditionally-fed babies die (sadly) ALL THE TIME, get diseases, have health problems, colds, flus (unlike my baby) etc!~! For SURE these parents should have sought out whatever they needed to to keep their baby healthy (sounds like they may have been mentally “off” if they didn’t seek help in this tragic case) – however I have an amazingly beautiful, active, brilliant, advanced, healthy baby, and I know HEAPS of other vegan moms who do too. Anyway, this article DID serve as a reminder for me to take EXTRA vit b12- scary! Thanks for the info…
Vegan Mom is just trying to explain to us how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. The answer is, “Who cares, the answer is immaturely to the discussion.” She has not contributed a thing to this discussion except for shallow boiler plate pronouncements. It seems that the human animal has done well for over 500,000 years on a diet that contained more meat or animal protein on average than it now does.
To be fair to my Vegan friends, there are three vitamins or nutrients that are responsible for higher brain function and these nutrients are totally absent or severely lacking in a Vegan diet.
That is the scientific truth as sure as the autopsy results for this poor baby showed that its parents alone were responsible for its death. These vitamins are vitamin B12, vitamin D3, and Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (or Omega3 Fatty Acid) and the absence of these important brain nutrients shows every time that Vegans try to explain how healthy their diet is. Less some of you wish to point out that DHA can be found in minute amounts in vegetative sources this is true. You can get small amounts of DHA by eating large amounts of seaweed. But seaweed is totally void of the micro nutrient eicosapentaenoic acid which is only found in fish etc. and is though to be responsible for the uptake and utilization of DHA.
The only vitamin or nutrient absent from a diet of meat only is vitamin C. Hence the old advice, “An apple a day keeps the doctor away.”
Activator x is Vitamin K2 of which the highest known source in the world is found in fermented Soy.
And 80% of the soy produced in the united states are a GMO product.
Unless you know for sure where the soy is produced and if a company uses it as an ingredient, if it’s GMO or not, if you are ingesting soy, you are more than likely ingesting a GMO product.
This article is so bogus not to mention that its an old article that has been changed.In the original article it gave more information about the baby,in this article they don`t mention the baby`s age or weight or the exact cause of death.It really gives no information at all about the baby…its just some obviously opinionated anti vegan person saying baby`s need animal foods,but that`s bullshit…..The American Dietetic Association and The American Academy of Pediatrics state that vegan diets can promote normal infant growth.
That is nonsense. The ADA is the largest org of non-partisan nutrition experts in the world and they state clearly that no animal products are necessary in a human diet ever. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19562864/
Hi Heather, I have never read or heard of a single meat eating mother whose breastfed baby died from malnutrition. Have you? Your comment that there are “lots of vegan moms who breastfeed and most of them don’t have children who die” is shocking. “MOST don’t die?” How about NONE should die! The lengths that vegans will go to defend their unnatural and illogical way of eating is astonishing. It must be B12 deficiency as this is definitely linked to mental clarity issues. That is the only reason I can come up with.
Wow, this reply is from the author?! I don’t even know where to begin…”unnatural and illogical?” If that’s not the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to plant based diet vs the Standard American Diet, I just don’t know what is.
I’m so sorry I saw a link to this article on Facebook and wasted any time reading and commenting. People’s view of veganism is so archaic, it’s just sad. Now I know to avoid links to this website in the future.
You got that right. Assinine attacks on veganism (THE most natural diet; nature’s intent) are frustrating.
A similar case happened 5 years ago in New York. “Journalists” has a good time trashing vegans. At end of case the Judge said “IT WASN’T VEGANISM; IT WAS NEGLECT” (an almost non-existant diet).
B12 is made by bacteria in the gut. The problem lies in people who eat spices, anti-biotics and other medicines, alcohol, vinegar, pesticides from conventional produce, hormones from meat products, and other poisons which kill off these sensitive bacteria and then they no longer produce B12 for our benefit.
There’s animals called herbivores. We’re one of them (primates). there is zero need for animal products: stated by the ADA, WHO and proven by nature.
The most natural diet? Nature’s intent?
If that was the case vegans wouldn’t need to take supplements, get off your high horse and eat it.
Natural diet? Do tigers eat trees??? Never heard of it.
Jaime: I know this might come to you as a surprise, but you (probably) are not a tiger. If you want to go with random animals and their diets, then please note that cows and horses practically only eat grass.
And Thriving Fruitarian – Even if majority of their diet is plant matter, most primates are actually omnivore. So maybe the most natural diet would be some sort of semi-vegetarianism?
NATURE designed us with BOTH canines AND molars: yes, unnatural diet.
I’m sorry to say that while the author might be playing the sensationalist a bit—WE ARE an omnivorous species, and you needn’t look further than our dentition to support that claim. It IS unnatural to totally avoid meat. Logic is a different story altogether however and doesn’t really enter into this.
However, it IS illogical to fail to understand that an infant needs certain vitamins to live and that a vegan diet may not provide all of those.
This blog does NOT in any way promote the standard American diet. In fact. . .. .it is very much the opposite. .. . . 🙂
Do you understand what canine teeth are for?
Ok, Firstly this article IS sensationalist. While leaving out food groups might have contributed to the baby’s death, the driver for that is NEGLECT and NOT food choices. So yeah, this article is written with bad judgement. I disagree with the authors equally uncalled for response too.
However, the core point here is that veganism is NOT a complete diet. The core agenda of diets like veganism is ethical and not scientific or nutritional for that matter. A full rounded diet does require both vegetables and animal produce and to the posters who say veganism is “natural”… well its not. Buddists and Indians are some of the oldest known non meat eaters and even THEY eat animal produce. Humans are actually omnivorous and NOT herbivorous.
The people weighing in on this issue should be doctors and nutritionists and not vegans or non vegans.
This is a reply to the comment made by “Thriving Fruitarian”.
Saying veganism is “the most natural diet, nature’s intent”,”primates are herbivores” is nothing but pure bullshit. First of all, humans are natural omnivores (not herbivores) that have evolved to eat a wide range of food, especially cooked food. Just look at the teeth in your mouth, or talk to any paleontologist who will tell you the same thing. Being an omnivore is a great evolutionary advantage. You would not even be here if your ancestors eat both plants and animals. Humans would have long perished along with countless artiodactylans in Africa and would have never been able to colonize the world if not for our abilities to pretty much eat and digest almost anything we can find.
Secondly, primates are mostly omnivores too. The most strict vegetarians among primates are gorillas, which would also consume small invertebrates occasionally, so they are not vegan either. Please get your fact straight before you open your mouth.
You are able to pursue whatever diet you want only because you live in a developed world in the 21st century where both food and health care are easily accessible. The notion that we humans are pure herbivores is nothing but fantasy.
Just one thing: In the world we live, all diets are the same in terms of being naturalartificial. Just forget about these words. Some types of vegan diet may not be natural, and the non-vegan diets aren’t natural either. For those who disagrees, just research and think about the history of the meat and its production.
@The Thriving Fruitarian Just to play devil’s advocate for a moment, other primates occasionally eat meat too. Chimps will kill and eat small monkeys sometimes.
Briana- it’s probably best to avoid anything that challenges your views of veganism. Can’t have silly things like facts interfering with your ideology.
Oh, chuckle.
Natures most natural diet?
LOL. Wow… just… wow.
I agree 100% Sarah! Even in instances like this, and vegans STILL think their diet is healthy – it’s unreal. It’s more of a religion rather than based on fact.
If it was a ‘natural’ way of living as they say, why are there so many substitutes on the market for meat, dairy and eggs? Why are they told to take supplements to ensure that they don’t get sick? We are not herbivores – we’re omnivores. We have one stomach (not multiple like cows) and canine teeth (not even, flat teeth, again like horses or cows); our system is simply not set up to digest ONLY vegetation.
Of course what you’re saying upsets vegans, but hey – the truth hurts; you’re talking facts – they’re talking ideology. And unless something actually happens to THEM they’ll continue to defend it, regardless of what happens to other people. Horrible, but true.
Meat-eaters are supposed to take suppliments,too. If the meat and dairy diet is so perfect,then why do we have heart disease,osteoporosis, diabetes,etc?
I hate how people try to make it out to be the fault of the vegan diet. What about blaming the parents of obese children for feeding their kids such crap? The average American diet is deficient in so much it’s scary. By drinking milk,you’re actually depleting your body of calcium. Why? Because the sugar mixed with high amounts of protein actually eats away at your bones.
Ignorant people make me sick,no matter the diet. Sadly,it’s the meat-eaters who are most ignorant all too often. That’s why they jump on a story like this. Vegans and vegetarians don’t jump on the rest of you whenever your babies die accidentally. Meat-eaters just need to jump on the rest of us to help them feel better about their diets because,for some reason,they feel so threatened.
I’m vegan and pregnant and my doctor is always so amazed at how perfect my levels are. She said that she’s never even seen such a perfect level of vitamin D and calcium even in a person with a regular diet. I only take a simple prenatal vitamin and folic acid,just like every single other pregnant woman should take. Otherwise,I simply eat healthy.
Lisa it’s how the meat and diary is produced and introduced to the body.
dairy*
vegans on a raw food diet dont need supplements , the take them because the quality of the food these days is terrible , and meat supplements are for idiots , what the guy said above ya there trumps youre argument big time mate , and hey i eat meat i love it , but a vegan diet has been proven to cure all illness(Dr Gerber) , go research it , but you wont and im wasting my time , all in all some propaganda here , lies lies lies , meat infested with hormones and anti biotics , cheese with a flouride content of like 3 per cent , gmo vegatbles , etc I bet youd eat em up no bother , yum yum yum I love being a part of a sick society thats eats dogshit mixed with chemicals…Organic and raw is the way to go , vegan if youre sick , the healthy home economist , When will it end , seems theres plenty agression behind the lies these days….hey debunkers , educogym , look it up I have acces to all their sciences , known as one of the best scientific gyms in the western world headed by health guru tony quinn , plenty of evidence backed up with fact , Puts this lot to shame.
Please take your clothes off and dont take pills anymore… none of them are “natural”
What about processed food? and many other things?
I dont believe in the “natural” thing. I mean just because thats what we´ve been eating/doing such a long time doesnt mean we should continue to have the same diet. (Btw, before being “hunters” we were “collectors”…)
Slaves are something very very old and “natural” to many many cultures. Do you think thats a good thing too?….
Sure.
We evolve with time to better things…
Oh and most of your animal food have supplements too.
So the only difference is you´re drinking them trough a glass of milk.
Anyways… sorry for my english.
Meat and egg substitutes are mainly for convenience in cooking (making it easier to adapt recipes to make them vegan or vegetarian) and taste rather than nutritional reasons.
Lisa, don’t call “meat-eaters” ignorant when you simply have different ethical views. I’m honestly so sick and tired of aggressive vegans. You say we jump on you all the time? I’ve never seen omnivores start anything with vegans–it’s always the other way around. Nearly every vegan I’ve run across has tried to shove their diet upon me, and it gets irritating and I shove back. And it’s honestly only vegans–I have lots of vegetarian friends who don’t do this crap.
“If the meat and dairy diet is so perfect,then why do we have heart disease,osteoporosis, diabetes,etc?”
That happens from overconsumption and eating unhealthy food, NOT from having a well-rounded diet that includes animal products. Since you used your own diet as an example in your post, I’ll use mine. I eat lots of fruits and vegetables, both raw and cooked, and I drink only water, tea, juice, and occasionally, coffee. I eat granola bars for snacks. I have meat usually once a day (usually at dinner), and it’s either a lean cut of beef or pork, or a piece of chicken, or a piece of fish, and I try my best to get all these things either from my local farmer’s market or local grocers who stock their shelves with products from local people. I make sure my meals are portioned correctly so I don’t eat too much; so I make sure my calorie intake is at or under 2000 calories a day. I don’t count every single calorie I intake, but every meal I eat is home-made, so I know exactly what fats and sugars and salts I’m using, and it’s a very low amount. I only use milk when I want to add it to my tea, coffee, or my stews/macaroni that requires it. And guess what? I have no health problems at all, I am at a very healthy weight, and I rarely ever get sick. And no, I don’t take supplements because I get all my nutrition from my diet. I have no need to take supplements.
Obesity and heart disease and diabetes is not the result of eating meat or other animal products. It is the result of eating unhealthy foods, like TV dinners or McDonald’s, or loading up your home-cooking with fats and salts.
And while I’m making this post, I might as well point out that I am completely against animal cruelty. I don’t think animals should be abused or neglected. I actually burst into tears when I see animals who are suffering–I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone through a box of tissues from watching animal cops. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve woken up from a bad dream, where I was beating the crap out of someone for kicking my dog. This is another reason why I buy my food locally–because I know that the people I buy my meat from are cruelty-free. So when vegans try to attack my ethical values because I eat meat, no. Just, no. Stop right there, because I do not condone animal cruelty. But I like my diet just the way it is and I don’t attack vegans for their diet. But I am far too often attacked by vegans for my diet despite how it is healthy.
TL;DR, eat whatever you want to eat, but don’t force your diet upon others or say that omnivores are unhealthy.
It seems the biggest argument for the substitutes is b/c today’s food is “Altered” or “different” …
Yes, well, I wont argue that isn’t true. We know it is. But our teeth are made to eat meat. Strong enough to bite through someone’s uncooked flesh. I don’t think we’re meant to munch solely on greens and fruits. I think science and nature has told us that. And avoiding ALL animal products is ridiculous. YES… ridiculous. And I do believe it’s more of a religion than based on actual science or health.
I love how people are claiming unfounded claims that there are somehow reproducing generational vegans out there that have been around for generations. How long as that way of eating even existed? As far as I can see from what I’ve read, we’ve always consumed animal products. Vegetarians maybe, but vegan?! I say: No.
“Just look at the teeth in your mouth, or talk to any paleontologist who will tell you the same thing.”
Right – the human teeth are NOTHING like a predator’s teeth. Look how sharp a real omnivore’s “canine teeth” are compared to a house cat.
I just dont know where to start! I dont think we are anyone to judge either the mother of the child nor the writer of the article! the truth is we cannot eat natural anymore, we live in a world where everything we eat has been altered.
In my own opinion, I dont see any natural part in the way cows are raised, or chickens are put into tonz of boxes with an unlivable life, or how pigs are killed like if they where corn. If you are a hunter, and hunt your own meat! yeii eat it!! is well won, but there is a lack of ethic for me the way that tonz of corporations has convert cows and chickens into comodities. If you want more information from these please try to look on to food inc video. Many vegans and vegetarans convert for the sake of the enviroment or for respect of life. I agree not everyone takes the proper care and yes, we vegetarians should take supplements, but that does not mean that people who eat meat should not take vitamins aswell. I am from Mexico, and a friend of mine went to live to London and she eats everything, she needs to take vitamin D and E sumpements cuz she is not getting the sun that her body requieres. So does this argument makes London unlivablle for any human being??? and unatural?
Also meat eaters have a lot of deseases that vegetarians dont, like for example hearth deasese, hypertension, diabetes. Being a vegan or vegetarian reduces the risk of this ddeseases that by the way are the highest growing deseases in the world!!!
So when someone dies from hypertension, no one judges them ( it is a meat eater).. So I dont think anyone in the world is feeling worst that the mother of the dead child. The mother should have been more carefull, yes, but accidents happen, Vegans and vegetarians should take the proper food and vitaimins. Meat eaters, enjoy your meat, just try doing excerzice and check yourself upon risk health issues.
Every body is different, and every mind is different we should just respect other´s life choices in my very own opinión
You are a overhyper cunt. Shut the hell up. You are a fucking Nazi and a waste of friggin’ space.
Hey MikeOverHere
You sound like such a fucking tool it makes me embarrassed to be of the sames species as you.
Do us all a favor and die.
@Lisa
Good for you and good luck on your pregnancy and baby
Just to be clear “MikeOverHere” You’re “supporting” the vegan position?
(of course, speaking like that you’re a detriment to any cause you align yourself with!)
I’m actually surprised that I got this far down the comments page before Godwin’s Law was invoked.
I’m surprised that the above vapid name calling is allowed given that the comments are moderated.
Sarah seriously of course they do its called failure to thrive and it happens in plenty of babies whose mothers eat all kinds of diet….You are so rude to anyone who says anything that does not agree with your lifestyle, seriously and you are soooo condescending you really think you are better than anyone who doesn’t follow your paleo whatever…I tried to right you for help once and you gave me such a snotty answer I didn’t bother looking into your diet…you need to get your attitude in check seriously and get over yourself …I have no respect for you or your views anymore the way you answer these people you are not an teacher your an agenda pusher, trying to scare people into your way of life….never in my life uggghh have a little respect for others please…
I hope you guys see the obvious logical fallacy you’re all making here. Just because one baby died from malnourishment doesn’t mean it’s because of the mother’s diet.
What about all of the other babies thriving on a vegan mother’s milk? What about all the dead b12 deficient babies of omnivorous mothers?
What were the conditions under which the baby grew? How often was the baby fed? Could the mother/baby have some genetic condition which inhibits b12 formation/digestion? What what the mother’s diet anyway? Was she on a healthy raw plant based diet or was she the sort eating vegan junkfood all day? We know nothing, pfft.
@Polaman
While it is a logical fallacy to draw such a conclusion based on guesses alone–if the baby didn’t die of starvation it is nearly assured that the vegan diet caused this deficiency.
The fact is that B12 deficiency is essentially THE GREATEST RISK of taking on a vegan diet. Nothing is more dangerous than this deficiency to a vegan in terms of malnutrition. Even a lack of protein can be made up for by the body–it has systems to build most of its own proteins. It cannot, however, produce B12 and does a pretty crappy job of absorbing it–so a constant source is necessary.
Now we can play the pedant and expect a scientific study to be done here in order to support the claim–but the reality is that from everything we know this is a simple case of connecting the dots.
I don’t think it’s reason to tell vegans that they must eat meat, but rather that it should raise alarm bells for mothers to newborns and expectant mothers who are vegans and intend to breastfeed. It’s as simple as supplementation and seeking out alternative sources of B12.
I think it’s silly to bring up charges against the family–the loss of a child is punishment enough you’d think–but remaining willfully ignorant about the possibility that this can happen is asinine.
As they say, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck–it’s probably a duck.
Source: I am a biochemist. This type of thing is sort of my bag.
“Unnatural and illogical”??? Not a surprising article of someone uninformed enough to advocate that “paleo” fad. “I have never read or heard of a single meat eating mother whose breastfed baby died from malnutrition. Have you?” YES. B12 deficiency is not exclusive to vegans, and many babies die because of different nutrient deficiency in the mother’s diet. Get informed first. However, judging by the tone of your article and comments I suspect all you wanted to do is to create more hype and controversy to drive people to read this.
Don’t take your nutritional advice from blog blabbers, people. Take it from DOCTORS and NUTRITIONISTS, which are actually EDUCATED in the subject. And mine actually praised me for following a vegan diet; after years of veganism my yearly blood exams yield perfectly healthy results.
Hey, Nacho (and all the other vegan defenders on here)– have you ever read “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration” by Dr. Weston A. Price? I have spent a lot of time studying nutrition (way more than any of my brothers & friends who are doctors) and have even been a part of laboratory work that backs up the integrity of traditional diets. BTW, Paleo is a little different than traditional (Sarah promotes traditional), but either is way healthier than vegan. I have tried a vegan diet and all I can say is that it took less time to notice the deficiencies of the vegan diet than it did even the Standard American Diet, so your argument that even the “meat-eaters” have deficiencies doesn’t stand in favor of veganism. BTW, doctors are taught at schools funded by pharmaceutical companies that have no interest in educating them on nutrition. Nutritionists are usually taught at the same schools and the ones that promote the propaganda you’ve obviously subscribed to are not true experts. If people learn that they can heal themselves with food, the drug companies will be out of business in no time. Plus, “Big Ag” would have to downsize and gain some integrity and that would also hurt the petroleum companies and affect jobs in several other areas (medicine, government, etc.). They all have motives for opposing traditional diets. If you really do your research, you’ll find that those that promote traditional diets (especially the Weston A. Price Foundation) are both well educated and are not connected to those companies and organizations that profit most from the misinformation out there about animal foods. You can go study your vegan bible (The China Study) or you can read the actual studies that were referenced in that book and find out that it’s all a myth. I would love it too if we didn’t have to eat animals or animal products to thrive, but the simple truth is that we do– that’s just how we were created (or evolved– whichever way you want to look at it.) It’s not a personal thing against vegans, it’s just the facts. I’ve witnessed so much medically and scientifically that I can’t, with integrity, support veganism. I can, however, say that most all vegans I have met are well intentioned people that just want to do what they believe is right (for themselves and the planet). I’m really ticked that there are charges being pressed against these poor parents. If the dear sweet mother was breastfeeding (which I imagine was not easy as a vegan– my sister, who is not vegan but eats very little animal products– has had great difficulty breastfeeding with all three of her kids), she obviously was trying her best to be a good mother. She is going through enough hell right now with the loss of her baby, she doesn’t need the issue made public or to be charged criminally. Shame on those bringing charges against her. If autopsies were done on everyone that died while under the care of a doctor (or at the hospital) and were shown to have severe deficiencies and then charges were filed, no hospital would be open and most doctors would be out of a job.
What an absurd statement: Of course Mothers whom themselves are omnivorse have had babies die of malnutrition…It happens in this world every day!
Your article would be a lot more concise and come off a lot less opinonated toward the aim of frightening Mothers into buying something from you if it were you had offered where it was in the world this death occured and by whose authority it was the Mother was charged with neglect.
The most common cause of infant mortality in this world remains dehydration due to complications from diarrhea and the mixing of supplements and baby formula under unsanitary conditions in lieu of breastfeeding is the number one cause of fatal infant diarrhea.
I myself am not vegan and as such am not offended personally when it is the vegan diet is attacked but I am offended when my sensibility is.
Slammo…thank you for your intelligent and unbiased comment.
It is also abundantly clear as well as a scientific fact that a long term vegan diet leads to a much lower IQ. Both in the young and in adults. That should be shockingly clear in this case.
“Among the British respondents in the National Child Development Study, those who are vegetarian at age 42 have significantly higher childhood general intelligence than those who are not vegetarian at age 42. (Childhood general intelligence was measured with 11 different cognitive tests at three ages before 16.) Vegetarians have the mean childhood IQ of 109.1 whereas meat eaters have the mean childhood IQ of 100.9. The difference is large and highly statistically significant.”
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201005/why-vegetarians-are-more-intelligent-meat-eaters
It’s likely, in my opinion, that the statistically higher intelligence in vegetarians compared to meat-eaters is a cause, not result, of difference in diet. That is, vegetarians are not more intelligent than meat eaters because they have a “healthier diet” – they have a healthier diet because they are more intelligent. That said, meat-eaters make up several groups, such as those following a traditional diet, or paleo, or the biggest group, Standard American Diet. Not to offend anyone, but those following the SAD likely are not the type to pursue any food education. It’s these ignorant people that are lowering the statistical average of IQ for the rest of the meat eaters.
If it’s scientific fact then presumably you can cite some actual evidence of that?
You’re a tool. Stop lying to mothers.
I am not lying. You Rebecca are proof that what I say is the truth.
“I have never read or heard of a single meat eating mother whose breastfed baby died from malnutrition.”
Wow, really? Breastfed babies die of malnutrition every day, all over the world. Just because you are getting a diet with animal protein does not mean you are meeting your dietary needs. You seem like a very ignorant person- and this is coming from your fellow carnivore.
It was the mother feeding for 11 months without introducing solids that caused this, there are more meat eaters deficient in B12 than vegans or vegetarians. Its pure sensationalism to keep the corpse munchers happy. Vegan diet is the healthiest the planet, the World Health Organisation recommend it for the animals, the planet and human health. I just posted up a pic of a meat eating mother who gave birth to her baby in the off licence, the baby was born drunk, I dont think that child will be getting the vitamins it needs.
So if its best for the animals … what happens when you get your way and everyone becomes vegan? What happens to the domestic cattle, goats, chickens, and pigs? Do you honestly think that farmers are just going to pay out millions of dollars to keep them alive and healthy just out of the goodness of their hearts?
So you are basically saying that humans are unique in comparison to every other animal. All the omnivores, carnivores, and herbivores derive most of their energy requirements from fats. Short chain fatty acids are converted from Fiber/Starch in Ruminants, Gorillas, and all the other herbivores.
The energy used for living is high fat moderate protein low carbohydrate in every single one.
If humans eat tons of plant based food we end up getting most of our energy from carbohydrates. It may be possible to be very healthy picking the right high carbohydrate foods, but acting like its the most natural diet based on these facts is silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qamxC3fV870
3:30 is where the explanation starts.
I haven’t had even one vegan even try to explain this. They just ignore it…so you want to try?
Considering the large number of animals that are artificially inseminated over and over in order to make them continually produce milk until their bodies can’t handle it anymore, if we stopped this practice of interfering with nature, no, we wouldn’t be overrun and the planet wouldn’t have to support all these animals like it is now. Farmers have to keep up with demand, so less demand= less animals. More demand=more animals=more pollution/run off and less rainforest. I think the Amazon is now 20% farmland just so people can keep eating whatever they want. It’s preposterous and it’s people like you that use excuses like these to never change and help to continue to kill the planet, themselves, and all these animals.
Are you kidding? Many (non vegan) babies have died of malnutrition…. so here’s the one off vegan case. Let’s highlight it! And those fleshetarian babies who survive grow up to be obese or host some serious health issues.
Johnahan you gotta be kidding me.
Considering there are many more omnivores than vegans, and many of those omnivores have thrived I think its a bit much to talk about fleshetarian babies surviving to grow up obese and with a host of serious health issues.
There are omnivores that are extremely unhealthy just as there are omnivores that have great health. There is a difference between an omnivore eating junk food and one eating plenty of healthy plants at the same time as naturally raised animal foods.
Naturally raised and fed animals provide plenty of good nutrition and our body is designed to use it effectively.
If a baby is that under weight and malnourished enough to die,it would be deficient in a lot of vitamins,not just a couple vitamins this article deems are only found in animals.If a baby dies of malnutrition and its mother is non vegan you won`t hear the article go into an anti meat rant will you? Its obvious this article is using this baby`s death to go on an anti vegan rant …..and if humans are such natural omnivores we should have no problem eating raw meat.We should have highly acidic digestive tracts that would allow us to safely eat the bacteria laden, decomposing bodies of animals… and the sight of raw, bloody flesh should look appetizing to us not repulsive… and wouldn’t we have a more natural way of dealing with animal fats and cholesterol than open-heart surgery.
Your views are laughable. Seriously. I wish I didn’t waste my time looking at this article and what you had to say. This isn’t even coming from a vegan either! Babies fed with formula, solids, toddlers and even some adults can be failure to thrive. Something bigger was going on here, whether it’s a malnourished parent, or one who made a bad decision treating a sick child, either way… There’s definitely more to it and blaming veganism as a whole is just plain stupid. And don’t any of you people know ANYTHING about breastfeeding? Jesus. An infant absolutely can survive and thrive and flourish on Breastmilk alone for 11 months… And guess what..? Even longer too! Ignorance at its finest.
Infants NEVER die from malnutrition from breastfeeding? Please explain infant mortality rates and malnutrition in impoverished areas. Mothers who are malnourished will be poorly equipped to nourish their babies regardless of their lifestyle choices. This case is not (and should not be) about veganism but about the fact that the mother didn’t have the necessary tests done to protect her child. Many vegan children thrive from a vegan diet and mother. This poor child was an exception and the loss is extremely sad.
@ Susan: “Nature” didn’t design us…God designed us, very specifically, very intentionally, for the purposes HE designed us for.
Don’t bring the evolution vs. creationism argument here unless you are the one and only Christian on earth who actually follows all of the laws laid out in the old and new testaments.
@Jan : Who the $^4k is god ? Where is his factory ? Dude , open your eyes
Don’t bring God into a discussion that is supposedly about science.
Actually, I have heard of meat eating moms who had children nearly die. The only difference was they put them on formula instead of letting them starve.
babies in africa are malnourished yet they still survive…your point is invalid
What do you mean by “they survive”? All the malnourished children in Africa survive? Where do you get these facts, let along these ideas? A child does every minute from starvation and malnourishment in Africa.
ignorance is the enemy of intelligence, but unfortunately is bliss to most. it’s not veganism or vegetarianism that did that, it was the mother’s failure to eat right. you can get all the vitamins and nutrients the body needs without meat, but as a meat eater and obviously opposed to veganism i don’t expect you to understand or believe that. just so you know, though, your prejudice in your comments is reminiscent of sayin all black people are criminals because one black man is convicted of a crime. maybe get more info.
A diet doesn’t make someone ca caring person.
I eat meat myself, so obviously I have no problem with meat-eaters… but seriously, meat eaters who condemn and criticize vegitarians/vegans have to be the lowest form of scum I have ever seen on an internet forum…….Don’t be mad that you dont have the inner strength to make the sacrafices these people make because they feel its wrong that an animal should die everytime they want to fill their belly……meat eating is a luxury…a luxury that can only be manifested by the death of an animal that wants to live……I applaud those who make sacrafices so that other creatures may live, plain and simple
and thats not a direct reply to paul……it was a general statement to the forum….dont know why it went under his comment cause I clicked add comment at the top of page
VicVaun36, Turn your profound statement around and you will be closer to the truth. That truth is that movement Vegans/Vegetarians are perhaps the most bigoted and judgmental humans on the face of the Earth.
They accomplish this dubious feat by looking down their noses at those of us who eat a normal or traditional diet, telling us that we are evil because of our food choices. They do all this despite Zip, Zero, Nada, S-C-I-E-N-T-I-F-I-C evidence that their own diets are any more healthy or that my diet is any more unhealthy than a vegan diet. However, there are reams and reams of S-C-I-E-N-T-I-F-I-C evidence that a Vegan diet is unhealthy if not in fact a slow and painful way to kill yourself.
Thank u for that 🙂
Yeah, but the fact she was making the effort to breastfeed is huge evidence that she was a caring mother. This is not a breastfeeding friendly world, but since you’ve obviously never breastfed, you wouldn’t have a clue about that. And, by the way, even though I do not support veganism (because it is evidently and scientifically unsound), this mother is not an idiot. I’ve read so many comments from those supporting veganism and they do not sound any more compassionate towards this mother than Sarah’s article about it. So many have thrown her under the bus by claiming that she must have not been supplementing correctly, but you aren’t listening to yourselves. If your way of living is so right, then show support for a grieving family instead of freaking out about your diet being threatened. (However, I would urge no one to back away from defending all our rights to choose for ourselves how to eat and live.) I do not support vegan diets, but I would not condemn someone just for being a vegan. While it is sad that this happened, I have to say Sarah, that you may have chosen to focus on the wrong issue. I love your site and your videos. I appreciate that you spend so much time helping other people learn how to eat and live healthier. I hope that you can, perhaps, take a different angle next time– perhaps promoting food choice would be a worthy cause. Either way, I’m happy you are willing to share your knowledge. Thank you.
A diet that does not want anything to do with animal mass murder and cruelty doesn’t make a caring person? What a ridiculously ignorant statement to make.
You do make a valid point Heather, lots of “normal” moms are not eating healthy balanced diets either. People who frequent this page tend to be very health conscious though, so this is really not a good place to go on the offensive criticizing us for being unhealthful. We think that the conventional diets of civilized society are crap too, something I suppose vegetarians/vegans and paleo/primal people can both agree on. The truth is though, while you and your child may survive, you are not getting all of the necessary nutrients in your diet without the addition of whole, organic, grass-fed meats. The human body is incredibly capable of surviving harsh conditions, people who eat 100% fast food diets survive too, but they do not thrive, they never really reach their full potential. I would prefer that my kids have everything their bodies need instead of just giving them enough to not die.
I am a vegan mother of 5 beautiful girls and I breast fed all my daughters and did not take b12 vitamins and all my kids are healthy and still growing in fact their doctor says my kids are very healthy and being vegan is one reason they hardly ever get sick! People it is a much proven fact that eating meats and cheeses and animals fats etc is very unhealthy and leads to all kinds of health problems! Now I agree you need to take vitamins if you are lacking nutrients from vegan food like b12 I make sure that we take vitamins every day if my kids and I were unhealthy I wouldn’t raise them with vegan. Morals. But wee are healthy and we love being vegan. You should really get your facts straight instead of assuming it was cause the lady was vegan obviously she was malnourishing her baby she didn’t even feed the baby real food she only gave the baby breast milk and nothing else at Allan baby needs potein veggies calcium all that good stuff I think the mother was severly neglecting her kid I am gonna read more on this but likee I said my kids are alive healthy and breeastfed by a vegan who didn’t take b12 vitamins at the time cause I didn’t know about it at the time..so there is definitely Morse to this story
Jeni,
The key to living healthy regardless of what diet one is practicing is as much variety in one’s diet as possible, I can assure you, the average person on the mainstream diet is just eating eggs all the time, or eating beef all the time, they are getting at least some variety in their diets. It’s the same with a vegan diet, if one was going to eat just pears all the time, that would be a very imbalanced diet.
Until the proponents of the mainstream diet can explain why we all should be eating that diet despite the fact that humans have no physiological or anatomical adaptations to flesh, they have not made a credible case to convince me of any of their arguments.
None of that is proven as there are people thriving on all of those foods. Its a fact that CAFO raised meat, and pasteurized homogenized dairy can be a part of all sorts of health problems.
Raw grass-fed milk from Jersey, Brown Swiss, or other breeds with A2 milk present no major issues for humans. Raw grass-fed milk contains enzymes and beneficial bacteria that are great for healing the gut and digesting the milk.
Meat that is from animals fed their natural diets rather than junk gmo corn, soy, and various filler junk is perfectly healthy for most humans.
People have been thriving on diets with meat in them since long before large epidemics of chronic conditions.
The chronic conditions are due to processed foods and poor food quality in general not meat, dairy, and fish.
I agree, they likely didn’t research it much, its fairly simple too! Many dietitians and dr’s endorse a vegan and vegetarian diet. Many studies (7th Day Adventist, Budhists, Rastafari and other groups) even have shown that we live longer on average too, so most vegetarian and vegan parents are extending the children’s lives. This is extremely rare, Im sure we can find articles of those on the typical unhealthy american diet that died too.
Many who eat cooked flesh, adults who drink other species drink bodily fluids and such are very unhealthy – lacking something, over weight and such. Look at heart disease, colon cancer and other leading killers, especially from factory farm drugged up animals. Animal eater or vegan, unless if you are careful to eat about a dozen different important foods daily you probably should take a multi-vitamin. Most people (veg or not) I know take them. Tons of athletes are vegan today too. B-12 is one of only a few things vegans should seek out along with Omega-3’s (rather than fish consume cheaper and easier to get daily, without the mercury – ground flaxseed, chiaseed, hemp or walnuts), Iron – spinach etc, Calcium leafy greens, broccoli, fortified products and such. VeganHealth dotorg – RD breaks it all down though.
What’s ironic is, when this happens on a mainstream diet, nobody blames the mainstream diet, nobody even takes a cold scientific look at it, despite the fact that this happens FAR MORE FREQUENTLY to infant children on the mainstream diet!
Just like all religions, Veganism is dangerous
Oops… I meant all OTHER religions
Freudian slip…
How is it in anyway comparable to religion?
I have been a vegetarian for 25 years, recently went to the doctor and had a full checkup including a complete blood workup. No vitamin deficiencies. Cholesterol 61, good cholesterol 49, triglycerides 121. and i am 55. Try getting those numbers with a meat diet, That kind of food leads to heart problems, cancer, diabetes and a host of other problems.
Your cholesterol was a 61? Holy crap. I suppose you subscribe to the 1980s theory that all cholesterol is bad and meat causes high cholesterol and disease. Yikes. You need to get that number UP! Inflammation causes high cholesterol, not meat. Funny how when I went Paleo my cholesterol actually went DOWN from cutting out grains and sugars. There goes that theory. And I would never want my cholesterol to be that low, yuck!
It might have been lower on your paleo diet because you are no longer eating dairy but you won’t find a vegan with cholesterol over 150, if even close to that. Correlation? Not hardly, it’s to obvious in most scientific literature that lack of dairy and animal products (including “meat”) is attributed to higher cholesterol. If you were to go vegan even for 3-4 weeks your cholesterol would seriously dip. And there is t one negative contribution to low cholesterol. Your body will always make what you need anyway. And as for inflammation, yes that plays a huge part. Especially when high amount of cholesterol compound the problem.
I’m extremely sorry, I meant attributed to lower cholesterol. It’s definitely a causation and not a correlation thing.
My most recent results were hdl 66 and triglycerides 89, I imagine most of the meat eaters posting here have similar numbers or better!
Right below my hdl result it says “According to ATP-III guidelines, HDL-C >59mg/dl is considered a negative risk factor for CHD.”
I had a Triglyceride score of 55 eating mainly meat…so what about that. HDL should be from 70-100 ideally. Also we do need some cholesterol 61 is likely too low.
William, current research shows that cholesterol levels of 100 or less have been repeatedly and increasingly linked to higher “all cause” mortality rates. I’d quit bragging about those numbers and start figuring out what to do to eat better if I were you…
You better start citing some research and if it comes from a “dentist” whom has no formal nutrition or medical training outside dentistry then please know its not scientific at all.
Absolutely false.
“It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.” http://www.eatright.org/About/Content.aspx?id=8357
to say that is sorry, so stupid, as if the baby died from the same deficiency and the mother was not vegan, what would you say? breast-feeding mothers should have healthy diet, no matter vegan or not, as this term itself doe not indicate anything – I’ve been vegan for years and I’ve had periods of healthy eating, but also such when I was on extremely unhealthy “diet” so it doesn’t at all depend on veganism.
read a little and EDUCATE yourself before judging !!
aand vitamin B12 is found in meat because why? animals took it from the plants they’re eating.
not to mention all the mothers who smoke and drink during pregnancy but oh well, that’s their personal choice, right – nobody blames them for anything!
The only difference between that you eat and what your great grandparents ate in the way of produce is that no one stood over the sink with a scouring pad and
scrubbed your grandmothers or granddaddy’s food for 30 minutes under a stream of running water.
Some of the best educated and smartest people in the world astonish me with their basic ignorance and stupidity. It reminds me of a doctor friend who had a Vegan patient with pernicious anemia. When my friend told his patient to eat a little meat, drink a little dairy or else take a good B12 supplement. The patient argued with my doctor friend and asked if it would be alright instead for her to eat only raw unwashed root vegetables that had been grown with the help of fresh cow dung and still had their full compliment of bacteria clinging to them. From the posts I am reading now, I believe that some of the posters here in your incredible ignorance would talk back at the movie screen if the screen actor made a statement that went against this or some other silly PC bias that you harbor.
This is indeed a very sad story. A vegan diet is not the issue here, it’s the lack of knowledge about obtaining proper plant-based nutrients. A vegan diet is a healthy diet provided one does their homework and learns more about nutrition. As vegans we should take B12 supplements. The list of foods recommended here is full of saturated fats, which is also very unhealthy. Let’s be clear here, a vegan diet is not only healthy, it’s responsible. Today, in the USA alone, 100 million cows produce 1.2 billion pounds of methane producing waste that is seeping into our soil and water. According to Worldwatch.org over 51% of greenhouse gas emissions come from raising livestock for human consumption. This is also very sad indeed! I would suggest before anyone condemns a plant-based diet they should learn more about the facts, take a plant-based nutrition course, and learn how much healthier it is than any other diet in the world.
dear AshleyRoz, I very much agree with your points… I do understand that some vegansveggis feel very strongly about there beliefs … but its just a fact .. humans are omnivores… you wouldn’t try to feed a hamster meat.. because im almost shure hampsters are veggis … I myself used to be a vegetarian… but if I had a child (god forbid bcuz I was 13).. and I knew that I needed extra b12 and other vitamins in my diet for the baby’s diet sake … I would bend over backswords for the well being of my child..
what these people put there child through and there other child.. hafting to go thorough a loss like that because of there parents mistake… it is criminal.. if meat is murder.. then every meat eating animal muders every day…. and if that means that on lives and the weaker dies so be it because if it wasn’t for this circle of life everything would be starving and dead.
Nicely said. Thank you.
She and her husband got 5 years in a French prison for their baby’s death. I feel terrible for them. They lost their child….wasn’t that punishment enough?
I had read somewhere else that they also tried treating the child of a serious ailment with cabbage. So yeah, I don’t think they were fit by any means to be caring for another life. I believe they need some serious mental health care.
NOONE can get vit B12 naturally, all livestock are supplemented with this vitamin because it has now become impossible to find it in soil, as it was the case before, since intenstive agriculture has deprived soils with many crucial nutrients, including vit. B12… (Do not forget that if intenstive agriculture is necessary, it’s because of farming…)
A vegan diet is totally healthful, for EVERYONE ! BUT ! As for all diets, people have to eat balanced meals. It’s sometimes not the case for vegans, and sometimes not the case also for non-vegans. How many non vegan babies (whose parents eat meat and so on) are dying each year without having their face and privacy in media ?
Don’t you just find it a bit weird, that the ONLY TIME when it happens to a vegan baby, everyone talks about that ?
You’re can be proud of you, you’re working very well for agrobusiness industries and lobbies…
Yet, it’s still time to reconsider your point of view.
AshleyRoz: Complete agree.
my mom is a vegetarian… she would have only eaten butter and milk from the listed items above… even so… it would not have been COPIOUS amounts of butter and milk!!! i have two other siblings… i turned out fine… and so did they!?!?! so WTF are you talking about lady? vegans and vegetarians can have perfectly normal healthy babies while choosing NON-VIOLENCE against other mammals/animals. I myself am vegetarian… I rarely touch butter and milk or eggs… I have had my bloodwork done… no deficiencies here! 😛
For the record, there are several options for vegetarians/vegans to get these essential vitamins without consuming meat,
if you read this article, , it’s apparent that while the vegan/vegetarian options for the most part need to be fortified, there are still acceptable vegan/vegetarian options in food, as well as SEVERAL vegan/vegetarian supplements.
I love meat, I admit it, I don’t think I could ever turn down a crispy piece of Wilbur, but there are options for vegetarians and vegans, and whether or not they research it is their own damn fault, not the fault of the diet.
While I do think it was due to veganism, this problem could have been resolved with vitamin supplements. I think 5 years in prison is really too much, unless the mother herself was clearly aware of her own deficiency. I think a charge of neglect is probably fair since the parents did not seek medical help when it would have been obvious their baby was not well. But considering that governmental health organizations list veganism as healthy and don’t talk about the need to take supplements, to charge her for neglect for that unless she knew about it is hardly fair.
As a vegan, I do know that my body gets iron-deficient if I don’t take supplements. I get periodic physicals that evidence this. I’ve always taken B12 supplements, so that hasn’t been an issue, nor has anything else.
I do think that claiming everyone should be vegan is misguided, but to call it a “crazy ethical agenda” to want animals to be able to live free of callous torture and mistreatment from humans is cold-hearted and selfish. It’s a crazy UNethical agenda to insist that it’s okay to treat animals this way. The way we treat farm animals is NOT conducive to obtaining more B12. In fact, we pretty much feed animals crap, and then we eat them. Think about that.
It wasn’t entirely the diet, people, it was the health care.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/vegans-trial-death-baby-breast-milk
“At the time of their daughter’s death, they were running an organic food business and refused to eat any animal products. Daquo said they had a mistrust of traditional medicine and preferred to treat their children’s complaints with advice from books.
The couple did not follow the doctor’s advice to take the baby to hospital when they went for her nine-month checkup and found she was suffering from bronchitis and was losing weight,” he said. Instead they treated her with cabbage poultices, mustard and camphor and washed her with earth and clay instead of giving her baths, the court heard.”
So this isn’t just a case of veganism gone way whack, it’s about the medical practices of a couple who have learned to distrust “traditional” medicine, i.e., big pharma. Now I don’t have a whole lot of trust in our current system as it spirals out of control, but this was the fatal mistake of the parents, and they paid with their child’s life. Don’t think for one minute that they do not regret and grieve over what they did. Prison for them is overkill, and their living daughter will now pay a price she never should have by losing her parents to “the system.”
An 11 month old baby EXCLUSIVELY breastfed? Common sense applied ……from 6 months an infant needs more to thrive. Parents should be charged.
By the way…. I breastfed my son for 19 months.
You can have a vegan diet, but you must supplement with other things. Quinoa for example, that has the amino acids found in meat. Eating vegan must be done right or a baby and mother will not get what they need.
Quinoa is not a supplement…haha..it is FOOD!
You can say the exact same thing about the traditional American diet. There are far,far,far more people who are lacking in nutrients and eat meat, dairy, and eggs regularly than there are vegans who suffer. The average vegan is very well-educated, and is constantly seeking more knowledge on how to be healthier still. Yet, there are thousands every single day who die due to a direct result of eating unhealthily though their diet is one with animal products. In fact, I can name at least 3 family member who died due to poor diet, and problems that arrised from it. Yes, I have seen the rare junk-food vegan, but they are most commonly uninformed youth who are vegan only for the animals and for some reason don’t care about their own well-being. But most vegans are more on top of their health than the average person who consumes an average diet.
Vegans are trying to be healthy tough .. not those eating the standard American diet! People who eat healthy and eat meat and other nutrient dense animal foods have health that blows away vegans. The vegans I know start to have serious dental problems after awhile from the lack of nutrients. Usually this is what wakes most of them up.
Obviously it was a lack of knowledge…..thinking a vegan diet is sufficient. In addition to lacking B12 and A (no carrots won’t cut it, we don’t convert carotenes all that well) there must be another missing element, the one affecting brain function.
There is a big difference between vegans and vegetarians, specifically vegetarians eat some animal products such as dairy!
I completely agree with you. This may sound harsh but I have never supported Veganism. Unless, it is required due a medical condition, otherwise, I find it absolutely ridiculous… I have heard the worst real stories about Vegetarians being involved in anorexia, others eating disorders and lack of vitamins and nutrients intake. This has to stop and people have to realise that there is more to life and this could serve as an great example as it has cost a life of a innocent baby. Who knows what else has happened out there that we dont know about it???
Joe. Be mindful. Veganism is generally a “political” attitude about not eating or using any animal products..none, not even shoes. My daughter is vegan. Vegetarians are not the same and will eat animal protein in the form of eggs, cheese, and other animal products, they just won’t have a hamburger made of flesh. Some vegetarians will even eat fish. Vegans consider animals “friends” and will not eat them in any form.
Many people who smoke, dont get cancer….your point is invalid
But every single one of them will get asthma, emphysema, COPD or similar effects from a life of smoking. Her small case study observation might be moot but so is yours.
What upsets me about this article is that her diet is not listed. Just because she’s vegan doesn’t mean she was consuming healthy food! We all know that now there are ALL kinds of substitutes and junk food that’s technically “vegan.” Hell, I even know vegans who DON’T EVEN LIKE VEGETABLES! You can’t judge based on one article. If you want extreme proof that veganism can provide a healthy lifestyle for an entire family, I suggest you watch Breakthrough. It’s a RAW VEGAN family and mom talks about how her last two pregnancy were far better because she became a raw vegan. Shit, she’s hiking a mountain TWO WEEKS before giving birth. Watch that and THEN see you want to keep spreading your hate. Save your judgement or you’ll be judged worse in the end. Karma is a bitch!
Since the “idiotic diet” is at the center of veganism, weren’t your vegan friends that responded actually arguing for your point and against their lifestyle? LOL! I mean that if the parents diet (particularly the mother’s diet) was in line with vegan diet norms, then being idiotic with their diet puts the blame squarely on veganism.
Now I’m the furthest thing from vegetarian/vegan and don’t feel any remorse for animal consumption, but feel that marginalizing or labeling those that are/do a bit harsh and judgmental. The vegan people I know aren’t vegan for primarily ethical reasons. The primary reason for them is that they feel a diet free of animal products is a healthier, therefore, better choice and that will lead to a richer, more fulfilling life. The ethical component of veganism seems to be more of an outcropping of that combined with what they feel is the right way to treat the animals we share the Earth with. That progression seems to be in line with how other, more mainstream lifestyles approach their philosophic methodology.
The part of this story that’s tragic and should be the primary reason for the parents being prosecuted is not responding to what had to be an obvious downward spiral of the infant’s health. If veganism was such a problem as to be “The” problem, then there would be many, many more reports of deaths and poor infant/childhood health records compared to traditional diet infants and children. To the best of my knowledge, that isn’t the case with vegans. Neglectful parents are another story, however.
Exactly and that is why the criminal charge is appropriate. This article author being “not sure” is as infuriating to me as your vegan friends denial is. When people are that dug in to their fanatical views that they ignore facts and endanger others, they are a menace to society and society has a right to act. That is not “Big Brother” it is their JOB. To protect other people from those of you who just don’t get it.
Actually this article is just a fear campaigne. I am vegan but eat a balanced diet and I supplement my B12 but I have meat eating friends that r B12 deficient as well as iron deficient. It is all about what foods u consume vegan or omnivorous as u can’t say a person who only consumes processed junk food is any better than a poor eating vegan. I am sick of reading all this stuff slandering vegans. It is terrible that a baby died and I am sure if the mother knew she was harming her child she would have done something to change that. It is not bad enough that she lost her child but now has to go to jail while mourning the loss of her child.
I breastfed my babies. I wasn’t the most sober person either, but they turned out fine. I think it says a lot about how dangerous a crazy diet can be- even moreso than a drug addict at times- and yes I think it’s about crazy ethical agendas.
Renee- So you would go out and get constantly pissed whilst breastfeeding0- therefore a neglectful mother who did as she pleased rather than be concerned for the negative impact alcohol in breastmilk might have (and having a drunk mother in care of children!) yet you have the temerity to call someone who eats a plant based diet crazy and dangerous…wow- just wow!
First of all B12 does not come from meat, it comes from plants. Same thing with iron. If you think vegans are unscientific about their diets, argue with the ADA who explicitly state that a vegan diet is perfectly safe for all humans at all stages of life. Secondly if you want to bring science into it, then explain to me how it is that one case versus the other tens of thousands of vegan babies who are perfectly healthy is proof that veganism is unsafe? Lastly to say that refusing to participate in violence is “crazy ethics” is absurd. How can anyone possibly say that abstinence from violence is crazy? It’s foolspeak.