I’ve written before on the highly effective use of fertility herbs in women. I myself used herbs to encourage fertility with my first pregnancy as my husband and I did not attempt to start a family until I was well into my 30’s.
Once we discovered the wonders of Traditional Diet, however, I no longer needed any herbal assistance with later pregnancies. Herbs are also highly effective at dampening fertility in order to naturally and safely prevent pregnancy. When would such use of natural birth control be beneficial?
For one, herbal birth control would be helpful to use between pregnancies in order to space children 3-4 years apart. This allows Mom to adequately replenish her nutritional stores so that later children are just as healthy, smart and capable as the first. Spacing children a minimum of 3 years apart (birthday to birthday) was rigorously practiced in ancestral cultures. It preserves Mom’s health and prevents exhaustion and nutritional deficiency for her too.
Natural methods of birth control are always preferable to chemically based agents such as spermicides, contraceptive patches, and IUDs which emit synthetic hormones, or the contraceptive pill which decimates the balance of gut flora and can lead to autoimmune disease in the mother and any children born later.
Even IUDs that emit only copper instead of hormones to prevent pregnancy should be avoided as copper toxicity is a very real and dangerous side effect of using these devices. According to Theresa Vernon, LAc author of the article Metals and the Mind:
If adrenal function becomes impaired, the copper builds up in the liver, brain, joints, and lungs. When this happens, you see very specific problems, including mental problems, liver problems, and detoxification problems. Phase II liver impairment is often made worse by copper toxicity, if not actually caused by it.
You also see a lot of copper toxicity with asthma and breathing problems, including emphysema. Copper also tends to build up in the joints, leading to arthritis. Chronic skin problems are also an indication of copper toxicity.
Low adrenal function is an epidemic in our modern society. If you doubt this, just walk into any convenience store and notice the enormous display of energy shots and drinks that are available for sale. Not to mention that a Starbucks or other coffee shop is virtually on every corner of most major cities. Americans have serious adrenal health problems. As a result, many are addicted to caffeine and sugar as a way to make it through the day. This makes any excess copper in the system a huge health problem!
Artificial contraception may be tempting in the short term. However, it is clearly not a great idea if preserving your long term hormone and gut health is important to you.
Herbs for Natural Birth Control
The use of anti-fertility herbs along with a simple barrier method such as the female or male condom that is not treated with chemicals (such as natural lambskin) works very effectively for preventing pregnancy. This option is especially attractive for health-conscious women who are not particularly turned on by the thought of charting their cycles, taking their basal metabolic temperature every morning, checking the stretchiness of their vaginal secretions and practicing selective abstinence a la Natural Family Planning which for some ladies over analyzes and saps the spontaneity out of what should be a very natural, uncomplicated and enjoyable event.
So if herbal birth control appeals to you, here are the different types and how they work as outlined in the very helpful book Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year. Please note that if sourcing your own herbs is new to you, a well-respected herbalist or acupuncturist in your area can put together a bag of herbs to assist you with natural birth control for an extremely reasonable cost. These professionally sourced herbs mixed in the proper proportions can then be used to prepare a cold or a hot herbal infusion that you drink periodically to keep fertility in check and under your control.
Sterility Promoting Herbs
Stoneseed Root. Women of the Dakota Indian tribes used this extremely powerful herb as a root infusion steeped in cold water for several hours. They then drank a cup every day for 6 months. The Dakota women also practiced breathing in the smoke of the plant as it burned to induce permanent sterility.
The Shoshone tribes concentrated in Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, and Montana also used this root for permanent sterility purposes.
Jack in the Pulpit Root. This root is less powerful than stoneseed root and is prepared by mixing one tsp of the dried powdered root in a half cup of cold water. The liquid is then strained and was consumed by women of the Hopi Tribe. Conception was prevented for one week by doing this.
Thistles. The Quinault Indians used thistles to induce temporary sterility by placing the entire plant in boiling water. The very bitter, strong tasting liquid was then consumed.
Herbs that Prevent Pregnancy
Wild Carrot Seed (Queen Anne’s Lace). This oily and strong tasting but not unpleasant herb is particularly useful if an “oops” occurs and unprotected relations take place during the fertile time. One teaspoon of carrot seeds is taken immediately and continued each day for another 7 days.
The women of Rajasthan, India use carrot seed for this exact purpose. While wild carrot seed is not commercially available, cultivated carrot seeds can be substituted but be sure to check that they haven’t been treated with chemicals or other toxic substances.
Research in mice has proven the effectiveness of carrot seed to prevent implantation.
Smartweed Leaves. A common weed that grows all over the world, smartweed contains rutin, quercetin, and gallic acid. All of these substances interfere with the initiation of pregnancy.
An infusion of one ounce of dried leaves (or 4 ounces of fresh leaves) in a quart of boiling water is consumed liberally until menstruation begins.
Like carrot seed, smartweed may also be used after relations occur on fertile days or to bring on menstruation if the period is late.
Rutin. This phenolic compound can be purchased in tablet form. A minimum of 500 mg should be taken daily for several days before and following ovulation. Another option is to consume rutin after sexual relations and continue each day until menstruation begins.
Herbs Which Initiate Menstruation
Ginger root. Ginger is perhaps the fastest acting menstruation initiating herb you can use. Put 1 tsp of powdered organic ginger root into a cup and pour boiling water over it. Drink when the water cools to a temperature which is still hot but comfortable. Drink up to 4 cups per day for no more than 5 days.
Vitamin C. While plain ascorbic acid is not the natural form of Vitamin C, it can be used therapeutically on occasion to bring on menstruation if necessary. Take 500 mg every hour for 12 hours each day for up to 6 days maximum. The use of ascorbic acid in this high dosage may also produce loose bowels as a side effect.
I thank you too for this information. This is helpful to many women that read your site. I feel if one doesn’t have anything positive to say about a post then they shouldn’t say anything at all. We are all entitled to our beliefs and this information is available in many places, each person has a right to choose what to read and what to ignore. Sarah has her right to free speech, as do the rest of us. And no, I do not believe in abortion, I have had 2 unplanned pregnancies and love all my children planned and unplanned, and so does my husband. But I do believe in free speech:)
I too believe in free speech. It is your right to say that “if one doesn’t have anything positive to say about a post then they shouldn’t say anything at all” and then to completely contradict yourself by saying you believe in free speech. I didn’t say Sarah had no right to say what ever she wants to say. I didn’t say she couldn’t post what she wanted to post. I just stated the truth.
What you believe to be the truth, you mean.
She is also allowing you free speech by not moderating your posts. It just seems like you are taking a tone with Sarah and others on here who have a difference of opinion with you on the use of these herbs and whether or not it is abortion. When reading blogs I don’t usually post a comment unless I have something positive to say. Please try to remember that this blog has a large auience of people of all walks of faiths and beliefs. That is what is so wonderful of the world wide web, we have Catholics, Jewish, atheists, Muslims, Protestants and many faiths, and we each believe what we want.
Stephanie – I am not “taking a tone” – I am stating the logical conclusion – a fertilized ovum is a human life and purposely preventing that life from implanting is no different than scraping it out after it has burrowed into the uterine lining. Logical and scientific.
Why are you commenting if you don’t have anything positive to say about what I said?
Do you see how that is not logical? Also, my right to speak is not “allowed” by anyone. It is my right. As it is your right to listen or not. Just saying. And some will be glad to know this information.
Thank you for posting this Sarah. I enjoy ALL of the information that you offer.
Thank you Kathleen. I have hesitated for a long time to post this information but women need to know this information which is so much better for their health than using artificial contraception. It’s based on the practices of traditional cultures which were very respectful of life and revered babies and children.
Sarah,
I have to respectfully disagree. I really enjoy reading your articles. You do a tremendous amount of research and I’m always impressed by the time you take to do that for people. This is why I’m so surprised that someone who takes the natural approach and appreciates the natural order of things would not do all the research for the most important element of all this– human life. You do so much to insure lifelong health and wellness. However, here you have stopped your research short. Science has proven that life begins at conception. The problem with the contraceptive mentality is that we are deciding to be ignorant of the truth. And that shocks me about you. All the raw milk and the non-grain-eating, local poultry- and beef-finding matters very little if we are killing human beings. We can’t ignore that. This has nothing to do with beliefs or religion. This has to do with the creation of human life (the most NATURAL thing there is) and the destruction of it for our own convenience. It’s amazing how well we are supposed to care for ourselves in order to achieve pregnancy and maintain it, as well as be sure to take nothing that would harm the baby. All for the baby’s best interest and health. That’s what we want right? However, if we don’t want to go there, we should just end it’s life prematurely and call that “wellness”. I’m sorry. I just can’t talk about pregnancy without actually acknowledging the human part of it. And “natual sterility”?? That’s supposed to be healthy? Really? Forcing sterility on our bodies. Show me where Weston Price promotes that and I’ll show you me throwing out his entire body of research as garbage. Sarah, thank you for starting a conversation like this. Freedom of speech is something I believe is very important. It was very brave of you.
I have to agree! I’ve always LOVED this blog & Sarah’s articles (even the ones I don’t completely agree with) but this seems to be a huge inconsistency on her part. This article is full of misinformation, euphemisms and deception. Not to mention treating something as natural and healthy as fertility as if it’s pathological. The majorities of traditional cultures had children during their prime childbearing years – late teens through 20’s – had large families, and spaced their babies by extended, ecological breastfeeding. I’ve never seen Sarah mention these facts. No one can be 100% consistent in everything, but this article is disappointing nonetheless. Not healthy, not traditional. It’s messing with your body’s natural functions via herbs instead of pharmaceuticals. Apparently Sarah feels that “optimal spacing” of children is more important than allowing the body to function in the natural and healthy way it’s supposed to. Also it was amusing to read that someone who thinks nothing of making her own cultured dairy products, rendering tallow, drinking fermented cod liver oil, eating raw liver, etc (which are awesome things to do!) can’t imagine the drudgery of taking her temperature and freaks out about her own body’s natural fluids. 0_0
That is definitely “hitting below the belt”. Sarah did NOT say that SHE personally would be put off by the rhythm method – she said SOME would.
I could not agree more Melissa ! Bravo . And yes, Sarah, they are abortifacients . Using your thought that life begins at implantaion.. Sometimes those abortifacients allow poor or insufficient implantation . By making the uterine lining inhospitable . That results in death of the baby trying to implant – or since meds were used to cause the lack of implantation – an early chemical abortion.
Sarah, do you have any more information about the copper coil? I have one, and I struggle with adrenal fatigue. This is concerning, but at the moment it is my only option.
Why are you asking Sarah? She’s not a doctor or even a natural health practitioner nor even an herbalist! You should abstain and ask a health professional.
Haha no, I’m enjoying sex too much. Since I’m bisexual, I could just have sex with women – that is wonderful birth control, after all – but I very much enjoy being with my boyfriend.
“Actually, you all do not seem to understand the medical definition of pregnancy. A woman is not pregnant until the fertilized egg is imbedded in the uterus.”
Actually Elizabeth – you are using semantics – playing with words and trying to intimidate those who disagree with you. Where did you get your definition of pregnancy? Here’s a few I found on line:
“The condition of having a developing embryo or foetus in the body, after union of an ovum and spermatozoon. The state of being pregnant; the period from conception to birth when a woman carries a developing fetus in her uterus.”
http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Pregnancy
“Process of human gestation that takes place in the female’s body as a fetus develops, from fertilization to birth (see parturition). It begins when a viable sperm from the male and egg from the ovary merge in the fallopian tube (see fertility; fertilization). The fertilized egg (zygote) grows by cell division as it moves toward the uterus, where it implants in the lining and grows into an embryo and then a fetus………..”
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pregnancy
Your Webster definition states that it is a process that takes place as a “FETUS” develops. It is an incoherent definition, because it then goes on to discuss fertilization, and a zygote. A definition from a medical dictionary would be more on-point.
Pam – did you notice the words that came after “fetus develops”? The are: FROM FERTILIZATION to birth. Not AFTER IMPLANTATION.
I am just talking about scientific facts, not religious beliefs. The word abortions means to end a pregnancy. If there is no pregnancy, the is no abortion. Period. Full stop. There is no room to argue.
I understand that some religions believe life begins with fertilization. Not wanting to prevent implantation makes sense in that case. However, you cannot call preventing implantation an abortion. You could call it a sin, immoral, murder, whatever. But it is NOT an abortion, because that is not what the word means.
That is what I was saying was ignorant. You can call a cow a dog, but it doesn’t make it so.
That argument goes both ways-you can say it’s not a baby but that doesn’t make it so, does it?
Wild carrot is listed at an abortifacient on wikipedia. You can look it up.
Please tell me how a woman will know whether or not the baby has implanted yet before she takes this.
Wikipedia is not exactly a scholarly resource.
Do you have some scholarly sources that you care to share saying these herbs AREN’T abortifacients?
If you follow this logic through, a woman could never take anything that might interfere with pregnancy because there is a chance she is pregnant and doesnt know it yet. Im sorry, but this just does not work for most women today, especially those focused on careers. You are essentially constantly running either the risk of BEING pregnant or the risk of GETTING pregnant. And there is no way to tell which risk you are currently experiencing. This makes no sense if you want to actually live life outside of having and raising kids. Sorry, but that lifestyle just doesn’t work for everyone.
Hi Elizabeth,
You’re right that “abortion” generally refers to ending the life of a baby implanted in the whom. I guess I was using the term more widely than the way its often used. Actually, it’s not a religious belief to say that life begins at fertilization. “Embryo” is a term that refers to the developmental stage of human life from fertilization to 11 weeks. At fertilization, two sets of chromosomes are intermingled and the embryo is already genetically unique and distinct; its sex is established at this point. When we’re talking about preventing implantation, we’re effectively discussing how to get rid of an embryo. This does occur at times for various, non-intended reasons, and when it does we call it “spontaneous miscarriage” or “spontaneous abortion.” Calling it “abortion” is a way to identify that it is intended; the intended ending of that human life (implanted or not).
No religion there!
I agree with the first two commenters as well. I have severe adrenal insufficency and recently found out we are expecting our third baby (which this time around was a huge surprise to us). While I was not pleased initially to find out about this baby, as a mother I could never forgive myself if I had used any of the herbs that prevent implantation, whether you realize it or not, that is abortion. I’m convinced that I will eventually be able to heal– even with this pregnancy. Even if I don’t, God rewards faithfulness. I don’t think it’s a good idea to be promoting herbs that prevent implantation, in a moment of preceived desperation you might do something you will regret for a lifetime. By promoting these herbs on your site you will inadvertantly be helping desperate women abort their babies. Am I currently excited about our ‘little surprise?’ Honestly no I’m not. But I bet I will be when I hold him/her for the first time, take her to kindergarden, go to this child’s wedding etc. Life isn’t always about what’s in your best interest or doing what you want to do, when you become a mother that child’s life is more important then how you feel and what you want to do. I think it is very important to take care of yourself to the best of your ability, but never at the expense of another human being’s life. I usually really enjoy reading your posts, but this one went a little too far.
Actually, you all do not seem to understand the medical definition of pregnancy. A woman is not pregnant until the fertilized egg is imbedded in the uterus. Therefore, preventing implantation cannot be considered an abortion. Many (some studies say over 50%) of fertilized eggs never implant, naturally.
If you have a religious belief that a fertilized egg is a life, then by all means, do not use those herbs that prevent implantation. However, calling it an abortion is simply untrue. Let’s not ruin this informative post with ignorant comments. 🙂
I’m pretty sure that all three of us understand perfectly what life is. It seems that you are the one who doesn’t understand. Please stop ruining and interrupting our comments with your ignorance. 🙂 Thanks!
Well said Elizabeth! Such a pity that everyone cannot accept and appreciate the diversity of life.
Oh goodness yes, what a pity that everyone can’t accept and appreciate YOUR beliefs!
I am Jewish, and in my religion, we are not considered humans entitled to rights until the head is out of the mother. Until that point, the health and well-being of the mother, the family, and the community are considerably more important. I do not consider my view superior, and I personally do not care what yours is. There is no point whatsoever in hijacking a post about safe and healthy sex to promote your beliefs, whether they are religious or not.
By the way, citimg Wikipedia and “a quick google search” would never be accepted in an academic paper, for good reason. The term “abortifacient” is contentious, and to assert that the definition that supports your view is the most correct is dogmatic.
Jade, maybe you should learn your Jewish faith a little better: “As a general rule, abortion in Judaism is permitted only if there is a direct threat to the life of the mother by carrying the fetus to term or through the act of childbirth. In such a circumstance, the baby is considered tantamount to a rodef, a pursuer after the mother with the intent to kill her. Nevertheless, as explained in the Mishna, if it would be possible to save the mother by maiming the fetus, such as by amputating a limb, abortion would be forbidden. Despite the classification of the fetus as a pursuer, once the baby’s head or most of its body has been delivered, the baby’s life is considered equal to the mother’s, and we may not choose one life over another, because it is considered as though they are both pursuing each other.
It is important to point out that the reason that the life of the fetus is subordinate to the mother is because the fetus is the cause of the mother’s life-threatening condition, whether directly (e.g. due to toxemia, placenta previa, or breach position) or indirectly (e.g. exacerbation of underlying diabetes, kidney disease, or hypertension).8 A fetus may not be aborted to save the life of any other person whose life is not directly threatened by the fetus, such as use of fetal organs for transplant.”
Sounds like the fetus has rights as a human being in the womb.
It is extremely presumptuous of you to assume that I do not know the intricacies of this issue in my own faith. I grew up a Conservative Jew, and then became Reform in my late teens. I have gone through a Bat Mitzvah and Confirmation, and have discussed this at length with several Rabbis and Rabbinic students. Yes, indeed, the health of the mother is an important consideration. It is not, however, the ONLY consideration.
You mention what is allowed – but who allows it? Jews do not have the same conception of Hell as Christians, and thus, outside of Orthodoxy, we do not see laws as incontrovertible, nor punishment as definite. To answer the initial question, the Rabbi and the community come together to decide what is moral. Moral – but not law.
Reading a Wikipedia entry does not make you an Old Testament scholar. The Jewish faith is extremely focused on the individual/community coming to just and moral decisions through intense introspection and study. There are very few definite right or wrongs, if any (especially if you consider the instances of genocide, infanticide, and murder “justified” in both Testaments). And even if they did exist, Judaism is constantly evolving to meet the spiritual needs of modernity.
This is a complex issue that cannot be explained by a simple “but your book says it’s wrong.”
Not “presumptuous” but very surprised… I didn’t get that from Wikipedia as you presumptiously presumed (you like that word so I decided to use it a lot)! I got it from a Jewish faith website. It is really unfortunate for the Jewish faith as it is for many Christian churches to chose to follow societal definitions of what is moral. I don’t think that is what either faith was founded on and probably not what the conservative sects of your faith believe either. I’m not going to presume I know any more about the Jewish faith… it’s just that my faith is based on it and we respect what used to be taught in your faith. Regardless of faith, our society deems murder as wrong. Life is scientifically deemed at conception so therefore killing (murdering) the embryo is wrong.
That’s a very interesting fusion of science and religion you rely on to justify your beliefs there. Yes, your faith (some sort of Christian? you haven’t specified, so I’m not sure) is based on mine. Some Jewish sects do not consider life as having begun until 40 after conception. So, which is it? Do you believe that life starts when “science” says it does, or when the infinite variety of Jewish beliefs says it does, or when the Catholic Church does?…. The possibilities are endless. Again, though, I do not care in the least if you think life begins at conception. Whatever. There are many religious people and scientists who will agree with you, and many who will not.
If you think getting that information from a Jewish faith website is any more legitimate, you have not paid any amount of attention. As I said, the decision to abort is never taken lightly, but there is also never a prescription for it – there is no definite law. None at all.
*40 days
Also, within the span of one short comment, you have said BOTH that it is a shame for Judeo-Christian religions to follow “society” in terms of morality, AND that because we as a society deem murder immoral, it must be. Make up your mind.
You didn’t follow me– I believe murder is wrong because I believe in the Ten Commandments as the main rule of my morality. Our laws were originally based on this same set of morals when society deemed it wrong to commit murder. If society deemed it right, then I would still think it is wrong. I think most religions are in line with science in the fact that life begins with the egg and sperm joining and forming a zygote. I don’t understand how anyone cannot see that, but that’s how science and religion see it. It’s politics that likes to parse words and redefine. I’m sorry but after a different comment, I’m not really convinced you know the laws of your own faith. I have Jewish friends who would disagree with everything you said.
Yes, Bethany, that’s exactly my point. Many Jews will disagree with me. And many will agree. That has been my point from the beginning. There is very little notion of right and wrong in Judaism; there is, however, a strong tradition of using your damn brain. Think. Consider. Study. I’m sure you’re Jewish friends are the be all and end all of Jewish morality for you, but that does not make any one person of faith more “right” than others.
This is one of the better bits of information: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/jewishethics/abortion_1.shtml Please take particular note of all the VAGUE statements. “Abortion is only permitted for serious reasons.” This does not mean ONLY when the health of the mother is threatened. Serious can include mental, emotional and spiritual reasons.
“STRICT Judaism permits abortion only in cases where continuing the pregnancy would put the mother’s life in serious danger.” Very few people are strict (Orthodox). Does this make my sect less legitimate than others?
This has definitely been an interesting discussion– I’ve definitely learned a lot more about differing Jewish stances. Thanks for explaining your views.
Bethany, you seem to think that “science”, and all “Christian” religions define life as beginning at fertilization. You aren’t correct on either point. All scientists do Not agree; and as a Christian, I can say that my branch or Christianity does not agree.
So, all this time that doctors have been calling an implantation in a fallopian tube an “ectopic PREGNANCY” , they have been wrong ???
I agree with the first two commenters. It is very disturbing and disappointing to read on this site (I’m a huge fan) about a “natural” way to abort a human life in its first stage.
I am against abortion. Preventing implantation is not commensurate with abortion. Stop overreacting.
She isn’t overreacting, she is disagreeing with you. I disagree too. I think that preventing implantation of a fertilized egg is commensurate with abortion. This post was a little offensive to me too. People should be allowed to say that without you accusing them of overreacting and insisting that you are right instead of merely disagreeing.
Oh Sarah, for the love of truth and your readership, I beg you to learn how to reply with grace to those who disagree with you. To tell someone “Stop overreacting.” is very curt, disrespectful, and unhelpful.
I’m trying to help you here.
She does not respond gracefully at all. She’s fanatical in defending her opinion to the death and has no tolerance for those who disagree with her opinions. It’s why I stopped reading her blogs and following her on FB months ago. She invariably responds rudely. I can’t believe so many people still read here since it’s hardly novel information you can’t get easily somewhere else.
Someone however linked this to me to read. It’s not even a well written post. A natural birth control post that presents “vaginal secretions” as “eeww icky” read another site for that info is just sad. And the options are little more than cut and pastes out of Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year. And the suggestions are little better than rumors that some tribes used X herb for permanent sterility. Yeah, that sounds like a great and helpful alternative. Recommending herbs with no knowledge of HOW they are working and how safe they are? That’s just stupid and dangerous.
She doesn’t have to respond gracefully or tactfully. This is her blog. Don’t judge someone else while in their house. There’s a little “X” at the top right corner of your screen, left if you’re on a mac…use it if you don’t like what you see. I don’t even know if I agree with using herbs to prevent implantation, but I do agree with her when she said stop overreacting. Geez. Women.
At conception an egg is fertilized and that newly formed life already has his/her very own DNA code. This is life. Purposely preventing that new life from implanting is the same as choosing to end that life. I came to read the article but have to agree that purposely destroying life is an abortion.
I assume that in many circumstances, someone wanting to bring on their menstruation immediately would be the equivalent of taking the morning-after abortion pill if they had sex and conception occurred.
Very disturbing information…
Sarah, can you please explain to me how this is not abortion? If there is an embryo (if for even a few hours), it is a baby. If we are putting things in our body to prevent implantation, we are causing that baby to not be born? I am just curious as to how you rationalize this is your mind.
As I questioned on your Facebook page, how can you get so appalled by moms that feed their kids boxed cereal but are totally fine with taking herbs to destroy an embryo? I guess those embryos (babies) will never get a chance to eat that boxed cereal.
Jen… you don’t have an “embryo” after a few hours, you have a zygote. I’m not comparing apples to oranges, I promise, but we need to get our terms correct here.
I think that everyone is blowing this completely out of proportion. In order to take herbs that prevent implantation, you would not even know if conception occurred, as the hormone released to show a positive pregnancy test do not begin production until the fertilized egg is implanted. Therefore, taking herbs, prior to implantation, is preventative, versus abortive, given that your pregnancy status is unknown.
SandiB… “given that your pregnancy status is unknown” isn’t really a good argument for aborting a pregnancy. If I left the gas running on the stove and someone died, it wouldn’t be a good excuse for killing someone in the house because I “didn’t know”.
You are also wrong: the sperm fertilizes the egg forming a zygote which immediately begins mitosis and becomes an embryo. Then after eight weeks it is considered a fetus. These are all scientific names for life happening from the very beginning. I’m taking anatomy/physiology in college right now and it’s funny that people don’t really know this. My question to anyone who thinks life is a bunch of cells and bodily fluids, why is this considered alive when the same things exist when you are dead. There is a force that most people choose to ignore. That’s why there are so many people of faith in the age of (supposed_ reason.
Sarah, thank you for the wealth of information on women’s right to her own sexual health. I personally do not agree that the herbs which prevent implantation are abortificants, for the fertilized egg still has to adhere/implant itself into the uterine wall for the full 9 month ride. There are times when a fertilized egg just does not implant naturally, at the very least think IVF implants that don’t take. I appreciate everyone’s right their own opinion, yet I will stand for the right to my own body. These herbs are used for the long term betterment of women’s health, so please, people, look at the larger picture. If not, then why aren’t you the first in line to adopt/raise someone else’s child when it is being raised in a less than healthful situation?
Brandy–
Those IVF embryos? Those are babies. Implanted or not. look it up.
Also, who should fight for the rights of your baby? And if it’s a girl– does she not have women’s rights? What about her right to her body?
So so sad that you don’t see that child as having rights.
Elizabeth, whether those IVF embryos implant themselves or not into your uterus during IVF treatment are not under your control. What was your point?
which is why IVF should have never been allowed to happen in the first place. Just because science/technology allows us to do something, doesn’t mean we SHOULD do it.
This is very interesting! Do you know if any are safe during breastfeeding?
NancyLee, lots of people don’t mind if their birth control interferes with implantation. If you do, NFP is probably the way to go.
Good question. Specifically for me I’m interested in the thistle and jack pulpit.
http://www.mountainroseherbs.com is a great site to go to for information on herbs. Each herb will also tell you whether or not it is safe for breastfeeding mothers, if you’re pregnant or other health related issues. I think there are a few more herbs, that I’ve come across, that can function similar to the ones Sarah’s listed. 🙂
With an article like this, it would be very important to find out whether or not these herbs are safe during breastfeeding. Also…taking some of these herbs could have serious effects on the endocrine system. Exactly what effects CAN they have? They are meant to change the endocrine system to go against the implantation of an embryo. Messing with different hormones can mess up the whole body.
Messing with an embryo could lead to birth defects later on IF the implantation does happen.
This is the 2nd time in the last few days I have seen an un-qualified, un-certified blogger dispensing health information that could end up with disastrous results to people who try their “remedies” without a practitioner who IS qualified and more research about the herbs. Herbs are potent, just like conventional drugs.
Sarah is NOT an herbalist and NOT a doctor. Take this information as a starting point and go on from there with someone else who IS qualified to help you and who knows the scope of herbal medicine so much more.
I agree with Nancy. I don’t want to read natural ways to abort a baby. Yuck! Nothing healthy or well about that.
Yes it is if it prevents a women from using drugs that mess up her hormones and her gut which she struggles to rectify for the rest of her life.
Preventing implantation is not abortion. If you feel it is based on your religious beliefs, that is fine and I respect your views but don’t expect this blog to stay in line with the doctrines of your personal religious beliefs. This is a blog about health, not religion.
Thank you Sarah for all your information, religion is supposed to bring us together but it seems to divide us quite frequently. Congrats on speaking your mind and not allowing dogma and societal memes from preventing us from learning about this topic.
If opposing abortion were a religious issue, atheist pro-lifers would not exist. But, happily, they do, and I’ve spoken with them before.
No exactly sure how my religious beliefs are relevant since I have not mentioned religion a single time. I read your bio and I find it extremely hard to believe that you are unaware that those herbs are abortifacients. Within 30 seconds on google, I found plenty of sites stating that they are. Maybe you could google “smartweed and abortifacient” like I did. I’m sure it would be helpful in settling this once and for all. In fact, under smartweed you say to take until menstruation starts. Huh? You are giving instructions on how to have an abortion with herbs! This post and your comments are misleading. Women need to be made aware that if they take these herbs and ARE pregnant they will likely destroy their unborn child.
I agree that saying “herbs which initiate mensturation” is extremely misleading – something I never thought I’d say about this blog, it is usually so direct and clear. It really should say “herbs that cause a miscarriage.”
My OB defines pregnancy as the moment of conception and I agree. It’s not a strictly religious statement as some seem to think. That is what his medical training taught him.
Indeed.
agreed
Herbs that can trigger menstruation will trigger menstruation, even if a fertilised egg isn’t present. There is no way of knowing for sure whether an egg actually became fertilised during unprotected sex. Even if an egg became fertilised, it may or may not have implanted when you initiated said herbs… hence, may or may not “cause a miscarriage”.
Personally, I would try to prevent conception, but really appreciate this post Sarah, as I felt a bit helpless when I decided to stop synthetic hormones for birth control! This post gives women other options, and whether they use them is a personal choice!!
And Granny Smith helped to point out that this is not about religion! Understanding a fertilized egg is science.
Excellent answer, Sarah… I agree that preventing implantation using herbs is not an abortificant and besides, women should have a right to do what they want with their bodies. Thank you for providing the HEALTH information that you do.
Honestly, Sarah. I’d much rather take responsibility for messing up my hormones and gut and struggle to rectify them for the rest of my life, than be responsible for purposefully taking the life of another human being. Based on your comment section, I’m clearly not alone in that.
To state that preventing implantation is not abortion is showing that you clearly don’t understand the facts. Abortion is the ending of a human life. An unimplanted, fertilized egg is a human life. Where religion comes into that, or if it even does, is irrelevant. As I mentioned above, you are using the exact same excuse the pro-abortion side uses to justify allowing full-term babies to be aborted (while protecting just-born infants). To believe otherwise is naive; and we were under the impression you were smart enough to know that.
Thank you Sarah for this post. Apart from the comments discussing abortion, I found this post to be an important one for women who wish to have control of their own health. I certainly can not afford any more children and would never take birth control. If I am in a committed relationship it is good to know that I have the ability to utilize natural techniques until menopause hits. Love your blog and your my hero for speaking out despite others opinions.
Do you know that these herbs you are recommending work by interfering with hormones? Vitamin C works because it drops progesterone levels (and a majority of women today are already dealing with low progesterone). Just because you are using an herb to affect hormones, doesn’t mean it is safe.
I hope everyone reading this post realizes what you are recommending IS NOT SAFE OR HEALTHY.
Also, if an embryo DOES have a chance to implant, these herbs/vitamins WILL CAUSE A MISCARRIAGE.
Sarah,
I am new to your site and up until now I have agreed with just about everything you have posted, and while you Could say this site is about health and not religion, using herbs to naturally prevent implantation is abortion and that does affect the health of…..the baby……and the mother. The couple to couple league has a great website to get any newbies started on the symptothermal method of family planning. Natural family planning may not be easy, but really should something this important “be easy”. When people start discussing these types of issues, I am reminded of that great line from America the Beautiful, “Confirm thy soul in self-control,thy liberty and law”
Call it what it is Sarah, you know natural abortion is abortion, but your mind has reasoned that if it’s good for YOU, then just do it! Let nothing stand in the way of our wants and desires. If something hinders the healthy gut, get rid of it???!!!
Sarah, the implantation preventers are abortifacients.
No they are not. Preventing implantation is not abortion.
Yes it is – the willful prevention of implantation of a fertilized egg – a human life – results in the destruction of that life. That is abortion.
The definition of abortifacients is controversial. Until recently, preventing a fertilized egg from implanting was considered abortifacient. Many OBs and doctors still choose to define it as such.
I choose not to use any contraception that could keep a fertilized egg from implanting.
NancyLee is right. A fertilized egg is a human life and preventing the implantation of that egg is abortion.
You can’t be serious. Who cares?????
“Biology is clear that at conception, also known as fertilization, a unique organism comes into existence. Since this new life possesses human DNA and is the offspring of human parents, it can only legitimately be described as human life.” Source: Condic, Maureen, MD. When Does Human Life Begin? A Scientific Perspective. The Westchester Institute for Ethics and the Human Person. .
Science and the Bible both confirm that human life begins at conception. To purposefully do something after conception has taken place would therefore be an abortion which is the taking of another human life.
Umm…no…they are not. If you are going to go with that logic then anything short of abstinence is an abortifacient.
Nicole, not that does not make any sense. What they are saying is if the egg is fertilized and you are taking something to prevent that fertilized egg from implantation THEN it is an abortifacient.
I, as a couple others here, also consider life as starting more at implantation than and fertilization.
It’s common among some Christian groups to consider birth control pills, condoms, and other means of preventing fertilization as sinful on the same level as means of abortion. Some of the arguments I’m hearing here are seriously reminding me of what I heard from those groups growing up, which always resulted in the end thought of anything short of abstinence is a form of or on the level of abortion. That is what I was referring to an that is what bothers me.
Just reading through all the comments & realizing that no one has properly defined terms. No religion here, just biology:
“Conception” or “fertilization” happens when sperm & ovum unite to form a zygote, or fertilized egg. That zygote is a complete human being, with 23 pairs of human chromosomes (1 set from each of sperm / egg): all info for physical characteristics, general personality, intelligence potential, etc, contained in one neat complete little cell 🙂 Nothing is added to that human being except time & nutrition (and hopefully, a lot of love!). We were all once fertilized eggs!
Conception happens in the outer portion of the Fallopian tube, near the ovary. We begin our lives in this outer portion of the Fallopian tube (test tube babies not included) and spend the next 5 – 9 or so days traveling down the tube toward the uterus. Once in the uterus, the process of implantation or nidation begins, in which the embryo (that’s what a slightly grown-up zygote is called 🙂 burrows him- or her-self into the spongy lining of the uterus. Still, nothing is added to this embryo except time and nutrition. The nutrition part really kicks into gear when implantation is well under way and the placenta begins to form at the site.
Thus LIFE begins at CONCEPTION, and any drug, herb, or other mechanism which seeks to end that life by preventing implantation can be considered an abortifacient.
One more thing: “pregnancy” was defined as being “with child” — the condition of the mom once conception had occurred — by the AMA until about 1960, when the birth control pill came out. Then, realizing that the pill prevented implantation, they changed the definition of “pregnancy” to “once embryo begins to implant in the uterus” (ok, not verbatim definitions) in order that the general public (which was mostly pro-life / anti-abortion) would not revolt. After all, drug companies had sales to make. :-
Granny Smith, the last part of your message is scientifically incorrect. The early birth control pills had high hormone levels, which actually Prevented Ovulation. That means No Egg was produced. The current low-dose birth control pills Do prevent implantation; however, the higher dose pills are still used when, for medical or religious reasons, ovulation prevention is necessary.
Ladies, this is all an argument about definition of certain words. Some of you consider life to begin at conception , Sarah believes it occurs at implantation. Some might call both situations “potential life”, or “possible life”, because, as we know, Many things can end a pregnancy in the first trimester. I am not trying to be controversial ; just showing that people can view things in different ways..
Does it grow? Then it is LIFE! There is no redefining of any of those words that can change that fact. Cells divide, change and growth take place. It is ALIVE.
Then, Jennifer, I hope you don’t let any house plants accidentally die! They’re alive, too!!!
Janel –
A houseplant is a houseplant. A HUMAN is a HUMAN. I’m sure you understand the difference between letting a petunia wither up and die, and murdering a human being. The only differences between YOU and that zygote are Size, Level of Development, Environment, and Degree of dependency. NONE are acceptable reasons to justify murder. Sadly, the argument being used here (unimplanted vs implanted) is the same argument that is used to permit full-term 39-week infants to be murdered but minute-old infants to be protected. Again, the only differences between that full-term 39-week infant and the minute-old infant? Size, Level of Development, Environment, and Degree of dependency.
@ Jennifer –
Um, no. Contraception is not murder. I mean, do you go around blaming women with infertility problems for killing their unborn children because the embryos are not implanting into their uterine lining?!? Same difference. Except in one the body is doing (or not doing) it on its own and in the other you’re using an agent to cause the body to do the same thing. Personally, I don’t know anyone that goes around killing nearly 7-month old infants (i.e., 39-week infants), but apparently you do.
I should also point out that you are oversimplifying the human development process. I’m not the same as a zygote. For one, I happen to be an identical twin. Which means two of us resulted from one zygote. Boom! I just blew your mind, didn’t I? Life ain’t so simple, so stop oversimplifying things. Zygote is a stage in reproductive development, not a HUMAN. Go look it up in a biology book. Or take a science class.
Janel –
You do understand “intent” right? The man who accidentally hits a child with his car because she runs out into the street and he’s unable to stop in time is not a murderer. The man who aims his car and speeds up, intending to kill the child in the crosswalk IS. INTENT is everything. Sarah is not addressing a natural bodily function, but rather giving women the bullet with which they can load the gun, then claiming they’re not really killing anything.
Since you deliberately misunderstood me, I’ll be clearer. I am referring to an unborn, 39-week fetus, which is perfectly legal to murder in much of the United States, for any reason, versus a just-born infant. I’m sure you knew that, but I’ll clarify just so we’re crystal clear. Again, the ONLY differences between those two babies are: Size, Level of Development, Environment, and Degree of dependency. Just as those are the only differences between a newborn, and a zygote.
And no, for the record, you did NOT “blow” my mind. You stated “I’m not the same as a zygote.” Guess what? The “you” reading this reply is not the same as the “you” who read my previous reply. You’re constantly growing and changing, but that doesn’t make you any less human. YOU (and your twin) were once 4 year olds, were you not? Were you LESS human at 4 years old than you are now? Less deserving of being protected against intentionally being murdered? What about at 4 months? Or 4 days?
I’ve had plenty of education on the subject of human development. It seems you might have missed a few things, so let me fill you in on a little thing called the law of biogenesis. The law of biogenesis states that everything reproduces after its own kind. Dogs produce dogs. Iguanas produce iguanas. Humans produce humans. Before the egg divided – was it not going to grow a human being (or two)? Is the fertilized egg from a human sperm and human egg, prior to embryonic stage, capable of becoming ANYTHING, and HUMAN is just one of the many possibilities? Even suggesting that would be considered absurd. So you aren’t really claiming that at some point YOU (or any other zygote) were not actually human. You’re simply claiming that at a specific point, the human being is not “human enough” to warrant the same protection of life that the rest of us have.
Size, Level of Development, Environment, and Degree of dependency. That’s it. And NONE are justification for murder.
@ Jennifer –
Dude, you are so sanctimonius, you can’t understand anyone else’s viewpoint except your own. “Abortion is murder!!!!” “You are the same as you were when you were a zygote!!!!” Dear lord… For the record, you clearly do not understand that saying an adult twin is the same a zygote is along the lines of saying that twins are the same people, which is offensive to identical twins everywhere. But of course, you don’t understand that since you’re only looking to justify your own viewpoint.
Your line of thinking simply just oversimplifies everything (and, yes, I am emphasizing the word “simple” twice on purpose for effect). People don’t go around aborting 39-week old fetuses just for the heck of it. Everyone knows (or should) that most abortions happen within the first trimester, which is also when most miscarriages happen – i.e., when the body will often naturally abort the fetus for one reason or another. For that matter, I’m not even sure that most babies are still in the womb beyond 39 weeks. How many people do you know that actually carry until their due date? Nearly all multi-birth pregnancies (i.e., twins, triplets, etc.) happen before 39 weeks, let alone 40. Lots of people have scheduled inducements a week or so before their due dates, and it’s not common to deliver post due date. Just sayin’…
Have you ever considered that if there is an “abortion” taking place at 39 weeks that perhaps there is a reason? Back in the 70s, my mom had another pregnancy the year before she had me and my twin sis. it was a stillborn, and she found out well before the due date that it was a stillborn. For whatever reason, the doctor made her carry it to term, and she doesn’t know why he did that. Perhaps the more compassionate thing to do would have been to abort the stillborn after finding out it was dead instead of forcing her to carry it to term, hmmm???
You make a lot of assumptions in your oversimplified viewpoints. However, the devil is always in the details. People who know a little think they have all the answers, yet people with PhDs in their field are aware of what they don’t know. Your viewpoints are, for lack of a better word, sophomoric.
Janel –
First off, if you’re going to “quote” me, at least use something I actually said. “You are the same as you were when you were a zygote” did not show up at ANY point in any of the replies I wrote. And just to set the record completely straight, this is not a “viewpoint” issue, not a “you have your opinion and I’ll have mine” kind of thing. Either it is TRUE or it isn’t. The point on which we differ is that a zygote is a human being, with as much right to being protected from someone purposefully ending its life as you or I (or an embryo).
Murder: Purposefully ending the life of another human being. Even doctors who perform multiple abortions every day AGREE that an abortion purposefully ends a human life. For me to say Abortion is Murder is not dogmatic. It’s stating a fact.
Perhaps you are trying to overthink a concept that is fundamentally simple. I wasn’t trying to come across as being a know-it-all, but I am certainly doing my best to share what I do know to be TRUE in a way that even a layperson can understand what I’m saying. You call that sophomoric. I call it talking at a level my audience can easily comprehend.
But since you want me to get technical, I’ll be happy to comply.
For the record, there is NEVER a reason to perform an abortion at 39 weeks (something I’m happy to share more detail about if that is something you’re in disagreement with). Forcing the body to prematurely eject a stillborn is a much different scenario, and I’m not even sure your point in bringing it up? A doctor inducing labor for a stillborn is between the doctor and his patient (and perhaps a new doctor if the patient isn’t satisfied with the plan suggested by the first doctor), but has absolutely no place in a discussion about taking a human life.
You don’ t like my 39-week fetus analogy, but you’re avoiding the main issue. Any fetus past 28 weeks has an excellent chance of surviving if delivered, yet plenty of women choose to have an abortion performed instead (and are fully within their “legal rights” to do so). And since we’re giving personal stories to back up our arguments, *I* carried 3 of my 4 children past 39 weeks. My sister carried all 3 of her babies (one to 43 weeks, one to 41 weeks, one to 42.3 weeks). Another sister carried both hers past her due dates. In fact, most people I know in my local WAPF community tend to have homebirths or birthing center births, so induction is pretty much unheard of; an overwhelming majority of the community members have given birth on or after their due dates).
But back to your insistence that you were not human as a zygote. Since you prefer the PhD answer, here it is {Following courtesy of Scott Klusendorf, bioethicist}:
*Twinning*. Cloning advocates sometimes claim that because an early embryo may split into twins (up until fourteen days after conception), there is no reason to suppose that it’s an individual human being prior to that time. Hence, early embryo research prior to day 14 is morally permissible. The flaws in this argument are easy to spot.
First, how does it follow that because an entity may split (or even recombine) that it was not a whole living organism prior to the split? As Patrick Lee points out, if we cut a flatworm in half, we get two flatworms. (Abortion and Unborn Human Life – Washington, DC: Catholic University Press in America, 1996; pg. 93) Would advocates of destructive embryo research argue that prior to the split, there was no distinct flatworm? I agree that twinning is a mystery. We don’t know if the original entity dies and gives rise to two new organisms or if the original survives and simply engages in some kind of asexual reproduction. Either way, this does nothing to call into question the existence of a distinct human organism prior to splitting.
Second, if the early embryo (prior to twinning) is merely a hunk of cells and not a unitary organism, why doesn’t each individual cell develop individually? Robert George writes: “The clearest evidence that the embryo in the first two weeks is not a mere mass of cells but is a unitary organism is this: if the individual cells within the embryo before twinning were each independent of the others, there would be no reason why each would not regularly develop on its own. Instead, these allegedly independent, non-communicating cells regularly function together to develop into a single, more mature member of the human species. This fact shows that interaction is taking place between the cells from the very beginning (even within the zona pellucida, BEFORE IMPLANTATION), restraining them from individually developing as whole organisms and directing each of them to function as a relevant part of a single, whole organism continuous with the zygote. Thus, prior to an extrinsic division of the cells of the embryo, these cells together do constitute a single organism. So, the fact of twinning does not show that the embryo is a mere incidental mass of cells. Rather the evidence clearly indicates that the human embryo, from the zygote stage forward, is a distinct, unitary human organism – a human being. (Robert George, http://www.nationalreview.com/corner, August 8, 2005, in reply to John Hood)
The key point is that even though the cells in the early embryo are totipotent (that is, able to develop into any kind of bodily cell), they function in a COORDINATED manner as parts of a unified organism, the embryo.
Third, cloning technology renders the twinning objection absurd. Put simply, cloning IS twinning. An ordinary skin cell taken from any one of us can be used to form an embryo with the donor’s genetic code. “If an embryo has no right to life because a TWIN can be formed from it, and a TWIN can be formed from any one of us, it follows that NOBODY has a right to life.” writes Ramesh Ponnuru (“Party of Death: The Democrats, the Media, the Courts, and the Disregard for Human Life”; Washington, D.C.: Regenery, 2006; pg. 56)
Fourth, there’s plausible scientific evidence that only a small percentage of embryos have the capacity to split. Thus, in the VAST MAJORITY of cases, the twinning objection vanishes altogether (Edwin C. Hui, “At the Beginning of Life: dilemmas in Theological Bioethics; Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2002; pg 69-70)
Nothing I’ve posted so far has been made up of any ASSUMPTIONS. You skip from one argument to the next, but so far have made no effort to actually engage any of the information I’ve posted as a response. Are you ignoring my points on purpose, or throwing out a bunch of strawmen hoping I’ll get so tired fending them off that I’ll never get around to proving the facts are indeed TRUTH, and not just *my* opinion?
Did you take all day to copy and paste all these citations?!? Citing a whole bunch of articles on twinning (of which, none appear to be scientific journals but at least two appear to be religious) does nothing to excuse your ignorant, offensive comment that implied I’m the same person as my twin sister because a human adult is the same as a zygote in your mind. Dear lord…. What a waste of your time.
And I’m not going to waste my time refuting religious ethical opinions from InterVarsity or CUA, but I will point out two very quick things: (1) Abortion is a procedure that may be safer for the mother in less than ideal situations where the fetus is no longer viable. You seem to assume that every pregnancy ends with a live, healthy baby. I never said my mom found out at 39 weeks that the preceding baby was a stillborn. I don’t know exactly when she found out, but based on her comments, she found out WELLLL before then. Thank you for your lack of compassion for expectant mothers in such situations. (2) I highly doubt your WAPF chapter is a representative sample of the general expectant mother population. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, I suggest you take a class in statistics. Entry level statistics would probably suffice.
Finally, since you’re so bent on equating abortion with murder, I’m gonna take a really wild guess and say these two gentlemen are your political idols:
Richard Mourdock:
Todd Akins: http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape-victims-rarely-get-pregnant.html
Am I right?
>>>Did you take all day to copy and paste all these citations?!?<<>>Citing a whole bunch of articles on twinning (of which, none appear to be scientific journals but at least two appear to be religious) does nothing to excuse your ignorant, offensive comment that implied I’m the same person as my twin sister because a human adult is the same as a zygote in your mind.<<>>…. What a waste of your time.<<>>And I’m not going to waste my time refuting religious ethical opinions from InterVarsity or CUA,<<>>I will point out two very quick things: (1) Abortion is a procedure that may be safer for the mother in less than ideal situations where the fetus is no longer viable.<<>>Thank you for your lack of compassion for expectant mothers in such situations.<<>>(2) I highly doubt your WAPF chapter is a representative sample of the general expectant mother population.<<>>Finally, since you’re so bent on equating abortion with murder, I’m gonna take a really wild guess and say these two gentlemen are your political idols:<<<
Anybody who is willing to stand up for what they believe, even against the twisting and mangling of their words, IS my hero. And yes, I’d stand up for these two any day, over our beloved president who believes that even babies that have been forced to go through the horror of an abortion and are born alive against tremendous odds are not entitled to basic first aid, but should be drowned in a bucket. At least Mourdock and Akin have the integrity to stand up and say “life is life, no matter how it comes into being, it has the right to be born and live, not tortured and killed even though it’s done nothing wrong.”
Wow! Did that not post correctly! Attempt 2:
-Did you take all day to copy and paste all these citations?!?
No, actually I spent all day homeschooling and taking care of my kids, feeding my family, and keeping my house clean. Why? Were you waiting around all day to jump on my next reply?
-Citing a whole bunch of articles on twinning (of which, none appear to be scientific journals but at least two appear to be religious) does nothing to excuse your ignorant, offensive comment that implied I’m the same person as my twin sister because a human adult is the same as a zygote in your mind.
I NEVER said you were the same PERSON as your twin sister. My, your twin sister must be quite a person for you to be SO offended that you both once came from the SAME zygote (which, before splitting, WAS fully human being).
-…. What a waste of your time.
Clearly, since you didn’t even bother to read it closely. I considered leaving the sources out because I figured you’d be narrow-minded enough that you’d use them as a “legitimate” reason to ignore perfectly valid reasoning. But even in a comment section of a blog, I’m not going to take away the credit these men deserve just because my debate is taking place against someone who isn’t open-minded enough to address the message, rather than the person delivering it.
-And I’m not going to waste my time refuting religious ethical opinions from InterVarsity or CUA,
Really? So if a CHRISTIAN says, “if we cut a flatworm in half, we get two flatworms. Would advocates of destructive embryo research argue that prior to the split, there was no distinct flatworm?” that somehow makes it LESS true than if an atheist says it? If it’s published by Catholic University Press (CUP, not CUA), that makes it somehow less true? Please, explain that one to me!
-I will point out two very quick things: (1) Abortion is a procedure that may be safer for the mother in less than ideal situations where the fetus is no longer viable.
A) When the fetus is NO LONGER VIABLE (your words), it is NOT an ABORTION! You’re speaking of a D&C, or D&E, NOT an ABORTION!
B) When we are talking about abortion in any week of the third trimester, I DEFY you to prove that an ABORTION is safer than a c-section. EVER! A third-trimester abortion is a 3-day procedure that involves the use of a powerful stimulant to open the cervix and then forcing the woman to endure an induction of labor in order to deliver the baby feet-first, leaving the head in the birth canal long enough that the surgeon can puncture the skull, suction out the brains, then deliver the remaining part of the baby. Explain to me under what circumstances is THAT safer than a quick c-section?
-Thank you for your lack of compassion for expectant mothers in such situations.
I never expressed any of my leanings (compassionate or otherwise) for mothers in those situations. You seem to think “abortion” is some sort of cover word for any procedure which removes something from the uterus, whether the material removed is living or not. *I* am speaking specifically about ABORTION — the procedure that ENDS THE LIFE of the human being that is LIVING inside the human mother. As someone who has had more miscarriages than living children, I do have quite a bit of compassion for women who’ve gone through the loss of a child. Watching my mother go through losing not one, but two babies shortly before their due dates, and having to deliver them stillborn, I have INCREDIBLE compassion for those situations. But you’re comparing apples to eggs in this situation, and have gone completely outside the matter at hand, yet again.
-(2) I highly doubt your WAPF chapter is a representative sample of the general expectant mother population.
Oh, I doubt it too. But we’re on a WAPF blog, which is read by mostly WAPF women. It only made sense to gear my statistics toward the group in question, rather than the population at large. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, I suggest you take a class in logic. Entry level logic would probably…well, clearly be over your head, but maybe you could get a tutor to help you.
-Finally, since you’re so bent on equating abortion with murder, I’m gonna take a really wild guess and say these two gentlemen are your political idols:
Anybody who is willing to stand up for what they believe, even against the twisting and mangling of their words, IS my hero. And yes, I’d stand up for these two any day, over our beloved president who believes that even babies that have been forced to go through the horror of an abortion and are born alive against tremendous odds are not entitled to basic first aid, but should be drowned in a bucket. At least Mourdock and Akin have the integrity to stand up and say “life is life, no matter how it comes into being, it has the right to be born and live, not tortured and killed even though it’s done nothing wrong.”
Yep!
So sad and disappointed to see the post. Also sad to see the uncharitable comments.
I appreciate the women who posted the truth about life from conception and that abortion is murder including anything that would prevent implantation. I can only pray for those who see otherwise. Yes, there is Truth. There is not your truth or my truth. Only the Truth. It doesn’t change. Abortions and birth control have been around since biblical times they are not new, but it doesn’t make them correct.
Without faces and voices, it is hard to judge some of the comments. We should be charitable in our response no matter what is said.
If you are standing for Truth, you will be persecuted. God bless you all. Yes, I am religious. I’m Catholic.