After an initial review of Kaayla Daniel Ph.D.’s report on Green Pasture Products, I felt it necessary to state my current position as a consumer and as a Board member of the Weston A. Price Foundation.
I know it is important to many of you that I weigh in on this issue since it is potentially so upsetting to those who have been using Green Pasture Products and giving them to your children as I have for years.
In this report, Dr. Daniel contends that the Green Pasture’s fermented cod liver oil and butter oil products are rancid and harmful to health. Furthermore, she claims that lab tests show that the fermented cod liver oil isn’t even from cod and is low in the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K2.
These are serious accusations indeed and ones that cause alarm coming from a professional as highly qualified as Dr. Daniel.
To give you some background, my relationship with Dr. Daniel began in 2007 when I met her at the annual Wise Traditions conference. I found her to be intelligent and good-humored … with a blog named The Naughty Nutritionist how could you be too serious, right? Over the years she has been a great supporter of the Weston A. Price Foundation’s work, serving on the Board most recently as its Vice President. She has written many articles for the Weston A. Price website and Wise Traditions Journal. Some of her articles appear here on The Healthy Home Economist website.
So, for Dr. Daniel to deliver a lengthy report that calls into question the integrity of one of the most highly regarded producers of nutrient-dense food supplements is a matter to be taken seriously. And I have. And, I can assure you, so has the Foundation.
First of all, let’s look at what we know by way of general background:
- Cod liver oil and butter oil were both used by Dr. Weston A. Price DDS in his research early in the last century and considered nutrient-dense foods high in the fat-soluble activators.
- Green Pastures has been producing and selling cod liver oil and butter oil since at least since 2003 when I was first introduced to the company. The fermented cod liver oil debuted in 2007, and I immediately switched my family to this product which we have been using ever since with stellar results. I know many of you have experienced the same because you have written to me about it.
- Green Pasture Product’s fermented cod liver oil has been tested by two independent labs – one in the USA and in the UK – and found to be free of rancidity while containing valuable nutrients. These tests served as the basis for the WAPF Board deciding in 2014 that claims of rancidity were unfounded.
- Many leaders in the Real Food community, including Foundation President Sally Fallon Morell, have studied these products in detail and toured the facilities (yes, I’m one of those bloggers Dr. Daniel says were given VIP tours – but what Dr. Daniel fails to mention is that I wasn’t even blogging yet at the time of my tour) and have been convinced of their authenticity and quality – to the point we have been using them ourselves and giving them to our children for nearly 9 years with excellent results – always in the proper dosage and never to excess.
- Two different laboratories have found mostly vitamin D2 in Green Pasture Products cod liver oil, and Dave was honest enough to share this surprising information with the public. Also, the extra virgin cod liver oil (Rosita) was found to contain mostly D2 by one of these labs as well. This is something that intrigues the Weston A. Price Foundation Board very much and there are plans in motion already to look into this further.
Secondly, let’s look at what Dr. Daniel claims in her report:
- The report makes damaging claims that the Green Pasture Products are rancid and therefore harmful and these tests were conducted by several unnamed labs using a supposedly superior testing methodology and equipment.
- The fermented cod liver oil contains average to low amounts of fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K2.
- DNA testing shows that the fermented cod liver oil doesn’t come from cod but from the Alaskan Pollock (considered a member of the cod family).
- The fermented cod liver oil tests for transfats and the most likely way this could happen is via dilution with rancid vegetable oil of some kind.
- The High Vitamin Butter oil may come from Argentina and also tests rancid.
- Vitamin K2 is not what Dr. Price referred to as “Activator X”.
Lastly, here are the initial concerns I have about this report:
- The labs used to run these tests are unnamed with the letterhead blacked out on the actual lab reports. This is highly unorthodox and is a major red flag. There should be complete transparency here. If the lab work is credible and authentic, the lab should be more than willing to put its name behind the data like is done for other scientific research. Dr. Daniel questioned the reputation and methods of the labs that were fully transparent and reported the fermented cod liver oil to be free of rancidity and high in the fat-soluble vitamins, so shouldn’t the labs which claimed they were rancid be closely examined as well? How do we know the tests weren’t run by a rival manufacturer actively seeking to do damage to Mr. Wetzel?
- Dr. Daniel cites Dr. Ron Schmid ND as one of the funding sources for the report who claims fermented cod liver oil caused him to contract heart disease (which in itself is a questionable claim since he is a sample size of one which is meaningless in scientific terms). In addition, by his own omission, he took excessive amounts of regular cod liver oil for many years (from 1979-2006) and then switched to fermented cod liver oil for another six years, again taking it in megadoses (1-3 Tablespoons per day … up to 9X the recommended daily dosage). This dosage equates to up to 20 teaspoons of salt or 75 glasses of water per day. Such extreme behavior that few, if any medical doctors would recommend, is not the fault of a product, but rather the fault and poor judgment of the individual taking it. It also indicates a potential lack of objectivity in the report that is concerning.
- The remainder of the report’s funding is not fully disclosed which raises another serious red flag. Were these other funding sources third parties who stand to financially gain from damaging results?
- According to a very reliable source, Dr. Daniel notified Dave Wetzel of her concerns regarding the fermented cod liver oil being rancid a year ago, and he responded with an invitation to fly her out to his facility immediately at his expense and spend as much time as she’d like to thoroughly investigate his methods. He took her concerns very seriously and had a number of tests done right away that he forwarded to her. Why Dr. Daniel didn’t respond to his efforts to address her concerns remains unanswered.
Being the professional I know her to be, Dr. Daniel would certainly understand my concerns and would welcome healthy, rigorous scrutiny of the lab work and methods used for testing. I look forward to more clarification on these issues in the coming weeks and months as well as as a point by point rebuttal by Mr. Wetzel. There are always two sides to every story.
In the meantime, given the excellent results I have observed in my own family consuming fermented cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil for the past 9 years, I see no concrete reason to make any changes until the claims in this report have been thoroughly substantiated with complete and utter transparency. I do very much agree with Dr. Daniel that more study is warranted.
The jury is still out on this and I, for one, am not going to knee jerk and abruptly change what has been working extremely well for my family for many years along with many other families I know.
I hope this summary of my thoughts helps in some way as you decide what is best for your own family.
UPDATES
The Weston A. Price Foundation has now published a lengthy response to Dr. Daniel’s report. Click here to review it.
Also, Dr. Chris Masterjohn has published an excellent rebuttal to Dr. Daniel’s report. Click here to review it. I, for one, have now decided to stick with the fermented cod liver oil as I have for the past 9 years based on this thorough analysis!
Trans fats in FCLO? Not so fast! Here are the latest test results.
More Information
Doctor’s Orders: Why Your Family Needs Fermented Cod Liver Oil
Fermented Cod Liver Oil: Myths and Truths of an Ancient Superfood
Kayyla Daniel’s really stuck her neck out, this was a huge personal sacrifice and I for one am truly grateful for her findings!!! Thank you Kayyla for showing us HOW BIG YOUR BRAVE IS!!
I am sickened by this because we have been taking FCLO daily for over 10 years. Last year we caught every virus that was going around, including the flu. One would think we were licking the grocery cart handles and all other public surfaces. NOW I think I understand; we are probably very low in D3 – according to the reports this is what happens. We are OFF ALL GREEN PASTURES products until further studies. Why on earth would we continue to use something that MAY have toxic vegetable oil in it? Decayed Pollock Liver/Toxic Vegetable Oil? I don’t think so!
Thanks for this post. After waiting a few years to finally be able to afford to purchase and begin taking these products I will be following this information closely.I haven’t been taking these products for very long to be able to report any significant health changes but I’ve been hopeful.
I for one have not been helped by the FCLO since I began taking it in 2009. I had blood work done in 2010 and my Vitamin D level was 25. This April I had blood work done again because my teeth were becoming translucent and I was wondering if I was not absorbing calcium. My Vitamin D level came back and it is currently 21. All of my other numbers are fine. I believe if I hadn’t been getting sunlight, a minimum of 30 minutes whenever it is sunny, then my level would be far worse. I have been working with a nutritionist to try and correct this. I have been on a high dose liquid Vitamin D 3 and my teeth are no longer translucent. I have been a WAPF member since 2006 and I really hope they and Green Pastures are what they say they are. I will not be consuming Green Pastures product as it does not work for me. I will be retesting my levels at years end.
I am concerned that you are not taking Dr. Daniels report more seriously. You state that Dr. Schmid’s claims are not scientific (n=1) while at the same time using your own family’s results to bolster your feelings that FCLO is good. Both anecdotal. I took it for over a year and ended up with toxic levels of Vitamin A and a constant low reading of my Vitamin D levels. In the same period I was giving the FCLO to my husband, he ended up with Afib and surgery to correct it along with other symptoms affecting his vascular system that did not go away until we stopped FCLO. All anecdotal to be sure but I don’t think you should dismiss Dr. Daniels claims yet and I do think you should tone down the stab at her blog name. It comes across like you are demeaning her credentials by pointing out the silliness of her blog name. Maybe not, just makes you look petty.
I don’t take a “report” that has personal digs throughout and doesn’t name the labs used so these people can be contacted directly to verify the authenticity of the data and testing to be anything that should be taken seriously at least not yet until full disclosure and transparency are provided.
I agree it is suspect that labs are but named. Where can we see the labs WAPF had done? I don’t see those named either.
Here’s they are completely transparent and identified. This was published in February 2015. http://www.westonaprice.org/uncategorized/concerns-about-fermented-cod-liver-oil/
Hi Sarah, thanks for this post. The Daniels report definitely raises some questions as it seems to be tied up with marketing for her coaching practice (you have to sign up for her list to get it; she offers free sessions which no doubt will point you towards her coaching, etc.) I don’t have a problem with people marketing their services but they do paint the report in a different light.
A question: MidWestern Laboratories, the lab referenced in the link you posted above, doesn’t show up on a google search, and I’m curious that their site wasn’t hyperlinked. Is it this company? midwestlabs.com/
I ordered FCLO & Bio-Kult because it was recommended for the GAPS diet, having just received my first order today. Seeing this info is quite upsetting. I am just a lay person who is putting my trust in someone else. I don’t know if I should take these products or not. 🙁
Hi Denise, I’ve been taking BioKult and FCLO for many, many years along with my husband and children. They have proven to be wonderful supplements that we have relied on to help keep us well and they have delivered exactly as promised. I would recommend if you are concerned to have your holistic practitioner do a muscle test on you for each product. This will alleviate any fears you may have!
I find your comment about Daniel’s blog name interesting, given the comment that Sarah made above is exactly what Kaayla herself encouraged when she “rebranded” herself as the Naughty Nutritionist a few years ago. Although she always gets a few laughs when she speaks now, I had to stop getting her blog feed, stopped following her on FB, and prefer not to attend her sessions at the conference any more since the sexual innuendo is so often over the top that it trivializes whatever topic she is discussing.
As for someone making unwarranted demeaning digs at people, one need only look at Daniel’s most recent report.
The report states that the WAPF board voted not to test the FCLO after questions had been raised. Would you be willing to share at some point how you voted on that and why?
Correction to your statement … the WAPF had ALREADY tested the FCLO when the vote was taken. The Board voted not to do *additional* testing as the testing that had already been done indicated zero problems with rancidity.
All non profit minutes are open to the public and have to be shared whenever requested. So, yes, I can say how I voted … it was 7-1 and I voted with the majority not to conduct additional testing as the testing that had been done was sufficient.
Thanks!
There is so much to process here. I gather Dr. Daniels was critical of the earlier research but it’s hard for me to know how to evaluate her criticisms in this respect.
As to the blanking out of the labs, what if this was part of an internal “blind” within Dr. Daniel’s process? i.e. what if it was blanked out so she didn’t know which lab was which during her analysis. This is the only reason I can think of for redacting the info.
I suppose Dr. Daniels is the next move — if the labs are revealed and they are reputable ones, wouldn’t it obviate a lot of what has been said here?
Dr. Daniels has posted an article stating that the requirement to withhold identity of labs is a standard practice. Chris Kresser published an article today in which he makes the same point. It seems this criticism is a red herring, although I would like to see further corroboration of Daniels and Kresser’s position. Also the lab name is hidden in some of Green Pastures own published results.
This seems to place the WAPF board and some of the defenders here in an awkward position, as much of the defense relies on the premise that this practice is anomalous, when it’s industry standard.
I could be missing something but it also seems to me that the detailed criticism of the earlier-funded WAPF tests hasn’t been adequately responded to here, although Kresser’s article does so — and moderated the concerns somewhat. But no entirely, from my perspective. Did Dr. Daniels make these criticisms of the earlier testing to the WAPF board?
Regardless of where the details fall, I’ve seen enough to believe that WAPF’s close financial relationship with a major vendor has clouded the issue. I think the correct thing to do for WAPF is to conduct it’s own testing *and* to change the relationship of its financial partnerships to avoid future conflicts of interest.
The lab are clearly identified! http://www.westonaprice.org/uncategorized/concerns-about-fermented-cod-liver-oil/
If she has to black out the names of the labs on the actual lab reports … then just name them directly in her write-up as done here.
Chris Kresser also takes issue with her conclusions.
Apparently the above statement is not accurate. I requested the board meeting minutes the day that you posted this comment. A week later I commented on that WAPF page that I had requested the minutes and received no response. Next day I called to ask what I needed to do to get a copy of the meeting minutes. What followed next was one of the strangest conversations I have ever had. The girl said, “Let me check.” Came back within a minute and said, “Yes, we got your request and it was forwarded yesterday.” This was a strange response as I hadn’t given my name. I asked if there was any timeline for an answer. “I don’t know.” Where was the request forwarded? “I don’t know.” The tone on the other end was very cold, and obviously very curt. I ended the call. Today, I get a message from Sally:
“Hi Steve,
Sorry for the delay in answering
It is the policy of the Weston A. Price Foundation to not make the minutes of meetings of its board of directors public. We have found that a policy of confidentiality supports full and frank discussions by the board.
We have consulted with our legal counsel and have been advised that this policy is in accordance with applicable law.
Sincerely, Sally”
I can’t help but think that if that was actually “the policy” prior to today, that it would take a week and a half to get back to me or that an intern wouldn’t have been able to handle the reply. Instead the director had to handle the matter personally, making it seem like this is either new, or abnormal. But apparently, if not before, at least now that is the policy. Still wondering what went down in that meeting that would lead to Kaayla Daniel acting as she did.
I was originally under the impression that the minutes could be shared, but then our attorney said that it was not required. I apologize for the confusion on that point. Having been at that meeting (I actually write the minutes myself), I can assure you that nothing “went down” to cause Dr. Daniel to go rogue as she has. It was a simple discussion and the vote was 7-1 that the independent testing the WAPF had already done on the fermented cod liver oil was sufficient and demonstrated no grounds for Dr. Daniel’s rancidity concerns. Dr. Masterjohn’s rebuttal of Dr. Daniel’s report I think clearly explains the huge problems with it from a lipid scientist’s perspective. I encourage you to read his write-up if you haven’t already. http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2015/08/weighing-in-on-fermented-cod-liver-oil.html
If you are still concerned, just go and have your practitioner do a muscle test on you with the fermented cod liver oil. That’s what I’ve done .. it tested fine and I’m continuing to use it as I always have for the past 9 years.
Who funded the tests you refer to in your bullet point “Green Pasture Product’s fermented cod liver oil has been tested by two independent labs – one in the USA and in the UK – and found to be free of rancidity while containing valuable nutrients. These tests served as the basis for the WAPF Board deciding in 2014 that claims of rancidity were unfounded.”
Sarah, thank you for your balanced, cautious approach to this delicate situation. I, too, will be waiting to see how this all plays out before making changes. I do feel this is something anyone taking this product should follow, but knee-jerk reactions do not help anyone!
Ashley, I favour this stance too.
From experience I can say that taking this as part of a tooth healing regime (à la Rami Nagel) produced astounding results. I cannot possibly determine how integral it was to this end but I can say the changes I made worked. These days I rely much less on supplements, more on foods themselves but I was considering a Winter top-up of FCLO…
Thank you Sarah. I shall follow this with interest.
I am more concerned with the low purported vitamin content and the mislabeled “cod”. I do wonder why the labs weren’t disclosed. This whole thing is a mess. I do think that Dave isn’t very transparent and I would love to know how fat and protein can be fermented.
This is just how I feel. I still have a lot of questions. As somebody who is hoping and trying to get pregnant, I really want hard answers. I feel like if it might have trans fats, be rancid, etc, then why should I take the risk when I have had three successful pregnancies and births in the past when I was not taking any variety of clo at all.
I feel so strange about it as we have been taken fclo since last year. I have very sensitive teeth and still one healing tooth decay. If i dont take fclo and eat a little to much grains or some natural sweetener my toothache is back. The minute I take it ,within few minutes the pain is gone. I am so sensitive that I know thru my teeth if the chicken was grain feed or pasture raised as my teeth give me trouble .Just have to wait and see as I have meet Sally on the conference in Ireland and I doubt she will leave all this without explanations. Hope its all false as i felt in love with that product.
Maja, same here! I also get a tooth ache/sensitive teeth from too many/too often grains/sweetener/fruit and instant relief from ache/sensitivity as soon as I take GP’s FCLO. I also used to get regular cavities/dental issues at each check up despite OCD levels of dental hygeine but as soon as I started taking FCLO they all stopped. Havent had a single one in the 4 years I’ve been taking it.
Same here. The Green Pasture products work like magic on my teeth. I’ve settled on the infused coconut oil, and have had the same great results from several different ways of using their FCLO and Butter Oil combo.
The report from Dr. Daniel is obviously bogus. There are countless people – both professional and lay persons – that have indisputable first hand experience. And you can find so many of these experiences published on the Internet, and in books, singing the praises of Green Pasture and Dave Wetzel. Their products are hands down the best in the world in the category. Globally, they are THE choice by the best distributors. And yet they remain small enough to stay remain uncorrupted.
Furthermore, Dave is very approachable and forthcoming, and the amount of information on the website is incredible. There is no producer that I trust more.
With all that being said, people should keep in mind that results vary wildly across people, as everyone has different body chemistry, and even for an individual, results will vary over time, as there is so much that influences our individual body chemistry.
Dr. Daniel’s report should be completely disregarded, as it is baseless, and nothing more than an attempt to gain attention in that market.
It is of equal (if not greater) concern that a senior figure in the WAPF has undertaken this research and has taken the step of publishing this damaging report. She cannot have taken this step lightly and without due consideration of its impact. We are all eagerly awaiting Green Pasture’s and WAPF’s response, but there is clearly much more to this situation than disagreement on the definitions of ‘fermentation’ and ‘rancidity’.
Except, she did so autonomously and is NOT being transparent. My family has been taking this product for years. We have experienced amazing health regeneration. It has had beautiful benefits that I have not experienced with many different fish oils over the last 15 years of trying different ones. The proof is in the pudding.
I also concur with the eyebrow raising at taking mega doses of anything, with the fish oil expressly. You can take too much of a good thing.
There already is a response from Green Pasture. Here it is below. I agree with Sarah’s thoughts on this. I’m not making any changes until more factual information is released. link:http://www.greenpasture.org/fermented-cod-liver-oil-butter-oil-vitamin-d-vitamin-a/response-to-questions-on-fermented-cod-liver-oil/