After an initial review of Kaayla Daniel Ph.D.’s report on Green Pasture Products, I felt it necessary to state my current position as a consumer and as a Board member of the Weston A. Price Foundation.
I know it is important to many of you that I weigh in on this issue since it is potentially so upsetting to those who have been using Green Pasture Products and giving them to your children as I have for years.
In this report, Dr. Daniel contends that the Green Pasture’s fermented cod liver oil and butter oil products are rancid and harmful to health. Furthermore, she claims that lab tests show that the fermented cod liver oil isn’t even from cod and is low in the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K2.
These are serious accusations indeed and ones that cause alarm coming from a professional as highly qualified as Dr. Daniel.
To give you some background, my relationship with Dr. Daniel began in 2007 when I met her at the annual Wise Traditions conference. I found her to be intelligent and good-humored … with a blog named The Naughty Nutritionist how could you be too serious, right? Over the years she has been a great supporter of the Weston A. Price Foundation’s work, serving on the Board most recently as its Vice President. She has written many articles for the Weston A. Price website and Wise Traditions Journal. Some of her articles appear here on The Healthy Home Economist website.
So, for Dr. Daniel to deliver a lengthy report that calls into question the integrity of one of the most highly regarded producers of nutrient-dense food supplements is a matter to be taken seriously. And I have. And, I can assure you, so has the Foundation.
First of all, let’s look at what we know by way of general background:
- Cod liver oil and butter oil were both used by Dr. Weston A. Price DDS in his research early in the last century and considered nutrient-dense foods high in the fat-soluble activators.
- Green Pastures has been producing and selling cod liver oil and butter oil since at least since 2003 when I was first introduced to the company. The fermented cod liver oil debuted in 2007, and I immediately switched my family to this product which we have been using ever since with stellar results. I know many of you have experienced the same because you have written to me about it.
- Green Pasture Product’s fermented cod liver oil has been tested by two independent labs – one in the USA and in the UK – and found to be free of rancidity while containing valuable nutrients. These tests served as the basis for the WAPF Board deciding in 2014 that claims of rancidity were unfounded.
- Many leaders in the Real Food community, including Foundation President Sally Fallon Morell, have studied these products in detail and toured the facilities (yes, I’m one of those bloggers Dr. Daniel says were given VIP tours – but what Dr. Daniel fails to mention is that I wasn’t even blogging yet at the time of my tour) and have been convinced of their authenticity and quality – to the point we have been using them ourselves and giving them to our children for nearly 9 years with excellent results – always in the proper dosage and never to excess.
- Two different laboratories have found mostly vitamin D2 in Green Pasture Products cod liver oil, and Dave was honest enough to share this surprising information with the public. Also, the extra virgin cod liver oil (Rosita) was found to contain mostly D2 by one of these labs as well. This is something that intrigues the Weston A. Price Foundation Board very much and there are plans in motion already to look into this further.
Secondly, let’s look at what Dr. Daniel claims in her report:
- The report makes damaging claims that the Green Pasture Products are rancid and therefore harmful and these tests were conducted by several unnamed labs using a supposedly superior testing methodology and equipment.
- The fermented cod liver oil contains average to low amounts of fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K2.
- DNA testing shows that the fermented cod liver oil doesn’t come from cod but from the Alaskan Pollock (considered a member of the cod family).
- The fermented cod liver oil tests for transfats and the most likely way this could happen is via dilution with rancid vegetable oil of some kind.
- The High Vitamin Butter oil may come from Argentina and also tests rancid.
- Vitamin K2 is not what Dr. Price referred to as “Activator X”.
Lastly, here are the initial concerns I have about this report:
- The labs used to run these tests are unnamed with the letterhead blacked out on the actual lab reports. This is highly unorthodox and is a major red flag. There should be complete transparency here. If the lab work is credible and authentic, the lab should be more than willing to put its name behind the data like is done for other scientific research. Dr. Daniel questioned the reputation and methods of the labs that were fully transparent and reported the fermented cod liver oil to be free of rancidity and high in the fat-soluble vitamins, so shouldn’t the labs which claimed they were rancid be closely examined as well? How do we know the tests weren’t run by a rival manufacturer actively seeking to do damage to Mr. Wetzel?
- Dr. Daniel cites Dr. Ron Schmid ND as one of the funding sources for the report who claims fermented cod liver oil caused him to contract heart disease (which in itself is a questionable claim since he is a sample size of one which is meaningless in scientific terms). In addition, by his own omission, he took excessive amounts of regular cod liver oil for many years (from 1979-2006) and then switched to fermented cod liver oil for another six years, again taking it in megadoses (1-3 Tablespoons per day … up to 9X the recommended daily dosage). This dosage equates to up to 20 teaspoons of salt or 75 glasses of water per day. Such extreme behavior that few, if any medical doctors would recommend, is not the fault of a product, but rather the fault and poor judgment of the individual taking it. It also indicates a potential lack of objectivity in the report that is concerning.
- The remainder of the report’s funding is not fully disclosed which raises another serious red flag. Were these other funding sources third parties who stand to financially gain from damaging results?
- According to a very reliable source, Dr. Daniel notified Dave Wetzel of her concerns regarding the fermented cod liver oil being rancid a year ago, and he responded with an invitation to fly her out to his facility immediately at his expense and spend as much time as she’d like to thoroughly investigate his methods. He took her concerns very seriously and had a number of tests done right away that he forwarded to her. Why Dr. Daniel didn’t respond to his efforts to address her concerns remains unanswered.
Being the professional I know her to be, Dr. Daniel would certainly understand my concerns and would welcome healthy, rigorous scrutiny of the lab work and methods used for testing. I look forward to more clarification on these issues in the coming weeks and months as well as as a point by point rebuttal by Mr. Wetzel. There are always two sides to every story.
In the meantime, given the excellent results I have observed in my own family consuming fermented cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil for the past 9 years, I see no concrete reason to make any changes until the claims in this report have been thoroughly substantiated with complete and utter transparency. I do very much agree with Dr. Daniel that more study is warranted.
The jury is still out on this and I, for one, am not going to knee jerk and abruptly change what has been working extremely well for my family for many years along with many other families I know.
I hope this summary of my thoughts helps in some way as you decide what is best for your own family.
UPDATES
The Weston A. Price Foundation has now published a lengthy response to Dr. Daniel’s report. Click here to review it.
Also, Dr. Chris Masterjohn has published an excellent rebuttal to Dr. Daniel’s report. Click here to review it. I, for one, have now decided to stick with the fermented cod liver oil as I have for the past 9 years based on this thorough analysis!
Trans fats in FCLO? Not so fast! Here are the latest test results.
More Information
Doctor’s Orders: Why Your Family Needs Fermented Cod Liver Oil
Fermented Cod Liver Oil: Myths and Truths of an Ancient Superfood
I wrote dave a year ago with a question about fclo. His answer was vague and when I asked for clarification it was met with crickets on his end. I’m not holding my breath for a lengthy explanation from him about the current situation at hand. If it’s true then there will be a law suit going I’m sure bc I, like many others, have about $200 stocked in my fridge of this stuff and well over triple that in past purchases.
If it’s false….well let’s just say either way someone is gonna be screwed!
I would’ve hoped for a response already from dave which I find to be quite off putting. If it were my company that was being questioned id come out with guns a’blazing EVEN IF my customer service skills sucked to the high heavens!
I, too, have always found Dave and his staff to be rude and extremely vague when answering questions, if they are answered at all. I’ve always wished another company would come along and give him some competition because I never felt great about supporting them. Returns are allowed within 30 days. If we all return the $200. worth of products in our refrigerators, perhaps he’ll start being more open and honest.
I read over the report and I was not convinced of its truthfulness. To be a Ph.D and to not know the types of cod then go on to say that since its pollock and not cod, which is a type of cod, is just laughable. It’s embarrassing.
I have no idea how the product is made. I do know that animal flesh can be salt preserved as well as fat preserved without being rancid.
This is just survivalist 101 knowledge.
With this said, some people do have problems with FCLO. I had extreme histimine sensitivity after moving out of a rental that began to leak and get mold. I couldn’t tolerate FCLO at that time among other things. It would burn my throat, give me acne and some other things.
I just kept drinking Kombucha after moving out and ate food very fresh after cooking it instead of making extra and reheating leftovers. I cut gluten out for awhile and I healed just fine while taking dessicated liver and getting plenty of sunlight. I live in FL, so that’s easy.
My histimine intolerance passed. I was able to take it once again. I personally don’t take it daily, but a few times a week. I take it more during the months postpartum after having a baby and recovering after the bleeding has stopped.
When I take it I do notice better eyesight, glowing skin, sparkly eyes and a happy thyroid. I’m not getting rid of mine.
Except that pollock is *not* a kind of cod. It’s from the Cod family, genetically (Gadidae). Saying that pollock is a kind of cod because it’s from Gaidae (the “cod family”) makes about as much sense as saying that cauliflower is a kind of mustard, because it’s from the mustard family. (Which is none.)
Cod is the common name for the genus Gadus. Some species that also belong to the genus Gadus are not called cod. Case in point, Alaska pollock. Pollock is a cod fish; being called Pollock does not mean it is genetically distinct, scientifically. Common names can be misleading and not necessarily an index of scientific rigour.
Terry, I’m familiar with taxonomy. The problem with your argument — that a common genus somehow makes pollock cod — is the same problem I mentioned above with saying a common family does so.
Pollock is not a cod. I spent half an hour looking for *one source* stating that pollack is a kind of cod. Some sources mention the relationship, but no source seems to indicate that a pollock is a cod. Just as one example, the Wikipedia page on Pollock doesn’t mention Cod.
Nowhere on the At-Sea Processors association is pollock described as a kind of cod; they are always listed as separate species. They do state that, “Pollock is a whitefish similar to cod.”
Fishwatch.gov states that “Pollock are managed along with other bottom-dwelling species such as cod, […]”
Terry, invoking “science” as being too complicated for people to understand seems like a partisan attempt at confusion to em. The science behind what is a cod fish and what isn’t… it’s not controversial. It’s not too confusing for people to understand, as you suggest. A pollock is not a cod.
According the FDA, “cod” is not an acceptable marketplace name for pollock of any kind. So while you might be right in saying that it is commonly though of as a cod, it cannot be labeled such.
Clearly, an important disagreement on the Board of Directors of the Weston A Price Foundation has broken out into the public domain concerning the contents, and the quality of the Green Pasture Cod Liver.
First, it should be clearly stated that that The Weston A Price Foundation has come to an important cross roads. The Weston A Price Foundation has over the years built a huge base of TRUST within and outside of it membership. This base of TRUST is so strong that I think it would be safe to say that just about any recommendation that the Weston A Price Foundation makes has immediate credibility both inside and outside it membership.
Because of this enormous base of TRUST, the WAPF has been able to attract “sponsors” that contribute large amounts of money to the WAPF in exchange for an “Official Endorsement” of these specific products by the WAPF.
If my understanding is correct, the number one level of sponsorship for the WAPF is the “GOLD SPONSOR”. That is to say, GOLD Sponsors give the most amount of money to the WAPF. And, if I understand correctly Green Pasture IS one of the FEW GOLD Sponsors. And, in exchange for the sponsorship fees paid by Green Pasture, the Weston A Price Foundation GIVES it’s HIGHEST LEVEL OF ENDORSEMENT. And, this WAPF Endorsement of Green Pasture products is strongly communicated to all of its members
This arrangement is all well and good as long as no questions of QUALITY, RELIABILITY or SAFTEY arise. BUT, the moment any such questions arise / become a part of the public domain, IMMEDIATELY THERE IS A QUESTION OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST on the part of the Weston A Price Foundation. WHY? Because the WAPF has taken money in exchange for their endorsement. THERE IS NO GETTING AROUND THIS FACT!
Anything that any member of the WAPF Board of Directors says or states concerning Green Pasture products is CLEARLY a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. And as such, a huge public relations disaster! Hundreds, if not thousands and thousands of WAPF members and their friends are now ACTIVELY questioning BOTH the credibility of the Weston A Price Foundation and their FINANCIAL PARTNER (GOLD SPONSOR), Green Pasture. This is indeed a CREDIBILITY DISASTER for an organization that is founded on credibility.
WHAT CAN YOU DO? WHAT MUST YOU DO?
1. The WAPF Board of Directors MUST, in unison, inform their members and the public that they will immediately select TWO highly reputable, independent laboratories to test the Green Pasture products in question.
2. These two test laboratories MUST obtain their product samples from out in
the market place and NOT directly from Green Pasture directly. The fact is,
an highly rated independent laboratory knows exactly how to obtain the
product test samples.
3. The WAPF MUST, at all cost , AVOID the “Coca Cola Syndrome” and
insure that the TWO test laboratories are NOT influenced in any way by
the WAPF or Green Pasture.
4. Obtain the services of a TOP Pubic Relations firm to guide you through this
situation / problem and to make SURE that the WAPF does not damage its
incredible reputation. I am sure that this would include informing your
membership and the public of exactly what you are doing and then, say no
more until the results of BOTH testing laboratories are completed.
I would make it a goal to complete this independent laboratory testing by
31 October 2015 and as such, be in a position to announce the results of the TWO independent testing laboratories at the Weston A Price Wise Traditions Conference in November 2015.
AMEN
Yes, this is exactly spot on.
Agreed
John S. Levinson, I am also concerned about Green Pastures monetary sponsorship of WAPF and conflict of interest. I like you ideas for a new set of independent lab tests.
Amen to that! I had my suspicions at first, it’s always at the back of my mind as to why only the GP brand is heavily promoted on various WAPF blogs. Ofcourse, being the sheep, I follow blindly. Thank you for your clear explanation. Hope they take note & proceed as suggested. We want unbiased independent lab test.
BEST course of action!
Totally agree!
Spot on! Thank you for such a great comment.
No professional association should recommend any one product over another. WAPF should just recommend FCLO in general as well as raw milk, coconut oil etc but not brands. I am familiar with many professional or trade associations and they stay far away from the dangerous practice of recommending a particular brand. Let the brands buy advertisement and floor space to generate revenues. This avoids situations like this
The problem with that Augie is that so many CLO brands on the market are industrialized with synthetic Vitamin A and D added and should not be consumed. If you look at the WAPF CLO brand recommendation page, there are 4 brands listed under “Best” which I think gives people plenty of room to choose which one works best for them. http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/cod-liver-oil-basics-and-recommendations/#brands
Thank you for your thoughts on this! This will be a story I follow closely moving forward.
One thing I cannot help but notice is that many have commented that they are not testing with high levels of vitamin D after taking this product. In my understanding, the main reason for taking FCLO is preformed vitamin A, and the D included is helpful, but not sufficient to increase one’s levels. (please correct me if I am wrong.) I also remember Sally Fallon saying that you can take too much FCLO, and to be judicious in the quantities, so getting proper amounts of vitamin D when using a product inherently low in vitamin D judiciously will not help one’s vitamin D levels. I might suggest that they try and get more sun time, and if that isn’t possible, find a different D3 supplement to help increase your vitamin D levels.
While I was on Green Pasture’s FCLO/butter oil blend, my lipid peroxide level was elevated out of range. Despite a scrupulous diet and lifestyle, I had a couple other cardiac warning markers that simply didn’t make any sense at all. Foods can indeed be responsible for causing such issues. I have switched to Rosita FCLO (Norway) and Organic3’s Extra Virgin Butter Oil (USA) and will be re-testing in a few months. I would advise all consumers to monitor their blood for lipid peroxides, inflammatory markers, and vitamin D level. I worry about all the children taking cod liver oil if indeed there is a rancidity problem. You may not see any effect in their health now, but it is not wise for them to have their blood vessels exposed to any rancid oils potentially found in cod liver oil. (This is why we also don’t serve them refined seed oils anymore!) Many parents are feeding their children a nutrient dense diet regardless of CLO supplementation, and thus their children are not getting sick as often, so it is difficult to attribute their health specifically to CLO. As for the vitamin D2 issue, no one should ever assume that simply taking a teaspoon of cod liver oil is sufficient for them, when we may potentially have absorption issues and/or genetic mutations that can hinder our assimilation and metabolism of these supplements. Getting out in the sun should be the preferred mode of “supplementation” whenever possible since the ideal form of vitamin D production occurs in our skin. By the way, I have been in touch with Dave about the source of his cacao powder used in his chocolate cream flavor, to see if he has verified the absence of heavy metals, but he has not. I’m disappointed in him for that. If anyone is unaware of the contamination of most cacao powders, you’re looking at cadmium, lead, and more. Buyer beware.
Hi Elizabeth, did your lipid peroxide level decline after switching to Rosita? I’d be very interested to know how Rosita EVCLO worked out for you!
Ben
All of this controversy could possibly be very easily laid to rest if the Foundation simply funded third party testing to see if the results are similar to what Kaayla has produced. The names of the labs would NOT be blacked out which would guarantee total transparency.
As a WAPF chjapter leader, I hope that all of us who are members and chapter leaders should call upon the WAPF board to insist that this happens as quickly as possible.
The WAPF HAS DONE THIS. http://www.westonaprice.org/uncategorized/concerns-about-fermented-cod-liver-oil/
The third party lab testing by the UK in this link was paid for by the WAPF. The results came back that the FCLO was not rancid and was very healthful.
Hi Sarah, thanks for your response: reminding us of the benefits we have experienced. However, the benefits some have received, along with the non-rancid lab tests, don’t answer the finding of high acidity and free fatty acids – the testing for more advanced rancidity – cited in Dr. Daniels’ work. Starting with Dr. Price and carrying through to modern scientific literature: taking rancid oil is worse than no oil at all.
I look forward to a response from Green Pastures about the measures of advanced rancidity, and great, Dr. Daniels can reveal the names of the testing labs to assure their status.
I have asked Sally if she would consider inserting a public discussion between Dr D and Dave Wetzel at the Wise Traditions conference. It would be hard to attend without paying attention to this matter if it is still unresolved at that point.
I have never considered FCLO to be a source of vitamin D and have supplemented that separately, but had hoped it was a good source of omega 3 fatty acids. My omega 3 index was low recently, despite a well-balanced diet and nearly a decade of FCLO. Which could mean the omega 3’s were low, OR that they were overpowered by trans fats (not in my diet, except butter) or omega 6’s (certainly present to some degree in FCLO) or lost in a battle with rancidity.
I’m refraining for now, until this is resolved, thanks for looking into it for all of us.
Deborah Gordon
Check out Chris Kresser’s analysis just posted … he says that lipid scientists would disagree with Kaayla’s interpretation of the labs. chriskresser.com/important-update-on-cod-liver-oil/
Sarah, I have been reading your posts for several years with great benefit. I have to disagree on the issue of FCLO. All this sounds very much like vaccine science. And if it does turn out that WAPF was ignoring warning signs to keep the money flowing, which is very likely given David’s incoherent mumbling and the near impossibility of fermenting livers, the trust of many will be lost not only for the WAPF but for you as well.
“the trust of many will be lost not only for the WAPF but for you as well.”
Waving around one single lab test “we did it, we did it” doesn’t convince or impress anyone with experience in sample collection and lab analysis. It simply will not hold up in court nor in the judgement of the public. In my mind it is already calling into question many statements made on your blog, which is a shame for any person with health issues desperately seeking help.
this could explain my recent blood results that showed transfat. There should have been NO reason for me having transfat in my blood. I was also remarkably low in vitamin D. While I have not been sick with viruses, I think I will stop taking this product until more testing has been completed because I believe the transfats are making some chronic conditions worse.
Thank you for this. I appreciate your perspective. I am eagerly awaiting the Foundation’s official response to this, as I know many others are.
I’m really looking forward to WAPF’s response on this matter. I have noticed that even when I take fclo religiously, my vitamin D levels seem to stay below the recommended range, so I have had some concerns over that. However, I’m not short-sighted enough to think that it could be testing methods, etc., and I know that it is a natural product, so there will be some variability on the vitamin D levels in each bottle. The high D2 levels are obviously a concern, but if that is the case for all cod liver oils on the market then I don’t think GP should bear the brunt.
However, I would really like these questions to get answered since these fat soluble vitamins are essential for growing children. Our children can’t help what we give them, and I need to know that I’m doing what’s best for them. I have noticed that there have been more complaints of constipation on the wapf formula in the last several years (and this is something that I have actually discussed with Sally–she said that this used to not be an issue). Could the change in the recommended clo be the reason?
Where do you find the correct dosage for how much CLO a child or adult should be taking daily when trying to heal tooth decay? I don’t plan to switch our family but in trying to heal one of our children’s teeth, it has felt like a guessing game as to how many CLO/butter oil, activator x, and/or skate liver oil capsules to give her. Our youngest takes the liquid form so I use that label to determine how many capsules everyone should “normally” take. I need a “dosage chart” for everyday vs healing protocol.
I’m also curious about the Activator-X mention. If the high vitamin butter oil isn’t what Weston Price meant, what was the activator X he discussed?
At present, I have no plans to stop using their products. I’d feel at a loss to turn anywhere else when we are doing all we can to help our (1 of 5 children) daughter’s teeth heal.
Heather, we’re in the exact same boat. My kids are also currently trying to heal tooth decay. Reading how harmful 1.5 tsp. a day might potentially be has me wondering if I am doing the right thing? I want more than anything to heal my kids teeth naturally and we’ve seen lots of success stories on The Healthy Home Economist, but is the FCLO/Butter Oil mix the right thing for our treasured ones? Is there any other option in healing tooth decay? I hope these questions are answered soon!
1.5 tsp a day is fine. Dr. Ron took 1-3 TABLESPOONS per day which is 3-9 teaspoons. And, he took this much for DECADES. Very much poor judgment on his part!
Didn’t something similar happen to Dr. Mercola — overdoing it on the cod liver oil? And now that I think of it, wasn’t Dr. Daniel engaged to Dr. Mercola for a short time? No nuptials, evidently.
3 tablespoons is about 1/4 cup. That’s a lot of fat to drink every day, to say nothing about the excess Vitamin A!
Not to mention far too many polyunsaturates no matter what the form is … very very unhealthy to consume polyunsaturates at this high level even in the form of cod liver oil.
Ben Hewitt discusses tooth decay in his latest book “Nourishing Homestead”, on pgs 86-87. In addition to sugar, phytate rich foods are also a major culprit and must be treated traditionally to reduce phytic acid. He refers readers to WAPF website for more info.