After an initial review of Kaayla Daniel Ph.D.’s report on Green Pasture Products, I felt it necessary to state my current position as a consumer and as a Board member of the Weston A. Price Foundation.
I know it is important to many of you that I weigh in on this issue since it is potentially so upsetting to those who have been using Green Pasture Products and giving them to your children as I have for years.
In this report, Dr. Daniel contends that the Green Pasture’s fermented cod liver oil and butter oil products are rancid and harmful to health. Furthermore, she claims that lab tests show that the fermented cod liver oil isn’t even from cod and is low in the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K2.
These are serious accusations indeed and ones that cause alarm coming from a professional as highly qualified as Dr. Daniel.
To give you some background, my relationship with Dr. Daniel began in 2007 when I met her at the annual Wise Traditions conference. I found her to be intelligent and good-humored … with a blog named The Naughty Nutritionist how could you be too serious, right? Over the years she has been a great supporter of the Weston A. Price Foundation’s work, serving on the Board most recently as its Vice President. She has written many articles for the Weston A. Price website and Wise Traditions Journal. Some of her articles appear here on The Healthy Home Economist website.
So, for Dr. Daniel to deliver a lengthy report that calls into question the integrity of one of the most highly regarded producers of nutrient-dense food supplements is a matter to be taken seriously. And I have. And, I can assure you, so has the Foundation.
First of all, let’s look at what we know by way of general background:
- Cod liver oil and butter oil were both used by Dr. Weston A. Price DDS in his research early in the last century and considered nutrient-dense foods high in the fat-soluble activators.
- Green Pastures has been producing and selling cod liver oil and butter oil since at least since 2003 when I was first introduced to the company. The fermented cod liver oil debuted in 2007, and I immediately switched my family to this product which we have been using ever since with stellar results. I know many of you have experienced the same because you have written to me about it.
- Green Pasture Product’s fermented cod liver oil has been tested by two independent labs – one in the USA and in the UK – and found to be free of rancidity while containing valuable nutrients. These tests served as the basis for the WAPF Board deciding in 2014 that claims of rancidity were unfounded.
- Many leaders in the Real Food community, including Foundation President Sally Fallon Morell, have studied these products in detail and toured the facilities (yes, I’m one of those bloggers Dr. Daniel says were given VIP tours – but what Dr. Daniel fails to mention is that I wasn’t even blogging yet at the time of my tour) and have been convinced of their authenticity and quality – to the point we have been using them ourselves and giving them to our children for nearly 9 years with excellent results – always in the proper dosage and never to excess.
- Two different laboratories have found mostly vitamin D2 in Green Pasture Products cod liver oil, and Dave was honest enough to share this surprising information with the public. Also, the extra virgin cod liver oil (Rosita) was found to contain mostly D2 by one of these labs as well. This is something that intrigues the Weston A. Price Foundation Board very much and there are plans in motion already to look into this further.
Secondly, let’s look at what Dr. Daniel claims in her report:
- The report makes damaging claims that the Green Pasture Products are rancid and therefore harmful and these tests were conducted by several unnamed labs using a supposedly superior testing methodology and equipment.
- The fermented cod liver oil contains average to low amounts of fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K2.
- DNA testing shows that the fermented cod liver oil doesn’t come from cod but from the Alaskan Pollock (considered a member of the cod family).
- The fermented cod liver oil tests for transfats and the most likely way this could happen is via dilution with rancid vegetable oil of some kind.
- The High Vitamin Butter oil may come from Argentina and also tests rancid.
- Vitamin K2 is not what Dr. Price referred to as “Activator X”.
Lastly, here are the initial concerns I have about this report:
- The labs used to run these tests are unnamed with the letterhead blacked out on the actual lab reports. This is highly unorthodox and is a major red flag. There should be complete transparency here. If the lab work is credible and authentic, the lab should be more than willing to put its name behind the data like is done for other scientific research. Dr. Daniel questioned the reputation and methods of the labs that were fully transparent and reported the fermented cod liver oil to be free of rancidity and high in the fat-soluble vitamins, so shouldn’t the labs which claimed they were rancid be closely examined as well? How do we know the tests weren’t run by a rival manufacturer actively seeking to do damage to Mr. Wetzel?
- Dr. Daniel cites Dr. Ron Schmid ND as one of the funding sources for the report who claims fermented cod liver oil caused him to contract heart disease (which in itself is a questionable claim since he is a sample size of one which is meaningless in scientific terms). In addition, by his own omission, he took excessive amounts of regular cod liver oil for many years (from 1979-2006) and then switched to fermented cod liver oil for another six years, again taking it in megadoses (1-3 Tablespoons per day … up to 9X the recommended daily dosage). This dosage equates to up to 20 teaspoons of salt or 75 glasses of water per day. Such extreme behavior that few, if any medical doctors would recommend, is not the fault of a product, but rather the fault and poor judgment of the individual taking it. It also indicates a potential lack of objectivity in the report that is concerning.
- The remainder of the report’s funding is not fully disclosed which raises another serious red flag. Were these other funding sources third parties who stand to financially gain from damaging results?
- According to a very reliable source, Dr. Daniel notified Dave Wetzel of her concerns regarding the fermented cod liver oil being rancid a year ago, and he responded with an invitation to fly her out to his facility immediately at his expense and spend as much time as she’d like to thoroughly investigate his methods. He took her concerns very seriously and had a number of tests done right away that he forwarded to her. Why Dr. Daniel didn’t respond to his efforts to address her concerns remains unanswered.
Being the professional I know her to be, Dr. Daniel would certainly understand my concerns and would welcome healthy, rigorous scrutiny of the lab work and methods used for testing. I look forward to more clarification on these issues in the coming weeks and months as well as as a point by point rebuttal by Mr. Wetzel. There are always two sides to every story.
In the meantime, given the excellent results I have observed in my own family consuming fermented cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil for the past 9 years, I see no concrete reason to make any changes until the claims in this report have been thoroughly substantiated with complete and utter transparency. I do very much agree with Dr. Daniel that more study is warranted.
The jury is still out on this and I, for one, am not going to knee jerk and abruptly change what has been working extremely well for my family for many years along with many other families I know.
I hope this summary of my thoughts helps in some way as you decide what is best for your own family.
UPDATES
The Weston A. Price Foundation has now published a lengthy response to Dr. Daniel’s report. Click here to review it.
Also, Dr. Chris Masterjohn has published an excellent rebuttal to Dr. Daniel’s report. Click here to review it. I, for one, have now decided to stick with the fermented cod liver oil as I have for the past 9 years based on this thorough analysis!
Trans fats in FCLO? Not so fast! Here are the latest test results.
More Information
Doctor’s Orders: Why Your Family Needs Fermented Cod Liver Oil
Fermented Cod Liver Oil: Myths and Truths of an Ancient Superfood
I had never even heard of Dr. Daniel until this report came out. However, I have thought on many occasions, that I wish someone would give Dave Wetzel some competition. Force him to show more care for his clients who spend a fortune on his product. His website and customer service are terrible. He is rude, ignores questions, and is very vague about the contents of his products. I think we all should be concerned about his unwillingness to be honest and transparent. We are all about real food, honest labeling, knowing where our food comes from but we blindly support this man when he is unwilling to tell us what is in the products that our families are consuming? My question to Dave years ago was regarding essential oils in the products. Many people don’t believe adults or children should be consuming essential oils, but they are added to most of his products with no information about amounts or where the EO’s come from. He refused to answer my question. I still don’t know, so we stick to unflavored. I hope we can get some answers. I hope Dr. Daniel’s information turns out to be false, but perhaps this should remind us all not to blindly follow. We should all hold Dave Wetzel accountable. Maybe this should remind him to show more respect for his clients. We deserve honesty from him, and his recent blog post on this matter didn’t cut it. Maybe we should return all our FCLO and stop purchasing from Green Pastures until we have some answers.
Seriuosly? Sorry, but I have a hard time believing you are a real user, as it is easy to verify that at least one of your claims is patently false:
1. Dave Wetzel has more product information on his website than any company in the world. He blogs about FLCO, the processes, the nutritional analysis, and even the conversations with customers; some of which are available in audio format on his website. I’ve never seen anyone as transparent or informative.
2. I have spoken with Dave on the phone and found him friendly and forthcoming. And I am an insignificant customer that has no special meaning to him, as I do not buy large volumes.
Posts like this look an awful lot like astroturf – meaning that you are here to serve some agenda by derailing the conversation or misleading readers. If the product was truly bad, you would have stopped using it and forgotten about it long ago. If you are a real user, with real issues, we should be able to see some evidence of such somewhere on the web. Yet for years I have seen nothing but high praise for Green Pastures – until this report from Dr. Kaayla Daniel surfaced. (Except for the smell and taste).
Hi Victor,
No astroturf here, although I’m wondering the same about you since you are commenting on everyone’s post and referring to Dave Wetzel as a “hero” 🙂 I believe there are many comments and bloggers(many hoping that none of these accusations are true), who still admit that Dave has NOT been transparent, gives very vague answers, or has not responded to their inquiries. Since you are so well informed on Dave’s process, Victor, can you give me the answer to my questions about essential oils in the products? I would really appreciate an insider’s opinion.
Hi Jenn,
OK, so you do have a valid inquiry about essential oils, and those specific details are not on the website, as far as I can see. I will gladly try to get more information about that for you (although, I am not an insider, so I am not sure when I can get this info yet).
I can understand your frustration Jenn, but I do not think it warrants your comments, as Dave is still more transparent than any other such company. Please consider that this is a small family farm, and also consider the enormous amount of information that he does post on the website. We can see that he makes great effort to keep us informed on every detail of the products and his thought process.
Also consider that the essential oils are optional, and not part of the core products (though they are almost everywhere, as you point out). Nor are they relevant to the topic under debate. I do not mean to belittle your concern; however, I feel we have a far larger issue here at the moment, and perhaps some people are bandwagoning or otherwise being incited to riot, so to say.
Remember too that the high volume of information on Green Pasture’s website is not only from Dave Wetzel, but from numerous other doctors and experts in the field of health and nutrition.
Nobody is perfect, but we can see that Dave actively puts out information about the products, and so I am sure that we will be able to get discussions rolling about the essential oils. I will add my voice to yours and email him now, although I do not expect any answers until these larger issues are behind us.
I hope my response has changed your perspective a bit.
Victor,
I believe my concern about flavoring was valid a year ago(when I made numerous phone calls, emails and posted on Dave’s blog) and is quite relevant in the current conversation. What are we paying $50./8 oz bottle for? Is it cod or pollock? Is it pure CLO or is it trans fats? Why is silica used? What is used for the flavorings? How much is used? Where did it come from? How is it made? There are miles of comments stating that Dave has not been transparent about his process or sourcing(and so far… still isn’t responding to these questions, even though some very serious accusations were made against the contents of his product days ago). Why is it taking so long to tell us what is in the product and where it comes from?
Before buying eggs, I ask my local farmer: Are they pastured? How often are the hens outside? Are they rotated between fields? Are they given supplemental feed? What is in it? Is it soy free? GMO free? How are the hens treated? He gladly answers these questions and he is a small family farm and I’m only paying him $3/dozen. We are paying $50/8 oz bottle of “FCLO” and we should have the right to know exactly what is in that bottle. We should not have to hound Dave with questions or search through his website. It should be clearly labeled on the bottle and clearly stated under product information on the website.
Victor,
I believe my concern about flavoring was valid a year ago(when I made numerous phone calls, emails and posted on Dave’s blog) and is quite relevant in the current conversation. What are we paying $50./8 oz bottle for? Is it cod or pollock? Is it pure CLO or is it trans fats? Why is silica used? What is used for the flavorings? How much is used? Where did it come from? How is it made? There are miles of comments stating that Dave has not been transparent about is process or sourcing(and so far… still isn’t responding to these questions, even though some very serious accusations were made against the contents of is product days ago). Why is it taking so long to tell us what is in the product and where it comes from?
Before buying eggs, I ask my local farmer: Are they pastured? How often are the hens outside? Are they rotated between fields? Are they given supplemental feed? What is in it? Is it soy free? GMO free? How are the hens treated? He gladly answers these questions and he is a small family farm and I’m only paying him $3/dozen. We are paying $50/8 oz bottle of “FCLO” and we should have the right to know exactly what is in that bottle. We should not have to hound Dave with questions or search through his website. It should be clearly labeled on the bottle and clearly stated under product information on the website.
Jenn – I am much more inclined to agree with you. I have had nothing but terrible customer service from GP (even commented on Kitchen Stewardship’s blog back in 2010 about it!). I said back then that I wish he would get some competition and it might improve his business practices. We have sacrificed in other areas to purchase FCLO/BO for our family (and frankly, I see little results except heartburn, consitpation and a gall bladder that is very unhappy – all of this goes away when I discontinue ONLY the FCLO). GP’s responses and vague answers have done nothing to reassure me that this is a quality product. At this point, it seems like attaining accurate results and being more concerned about people’s health would be the most important thing – instead of contacting the lawyers. I have followed this blog and WAPF faithfully for many years and this has certainly given me pause as to who I will trust. You said it very well … I have been blindly following and I just want some honesty and transparency. I am left wondering if, indeed, the Emperor is wearing new clothes and I’ve been duped.
As someone who has fished for cod off the Maine coast I can tell you cod is loaded with parasites and worms. Yes, also in the livers. Some of those beggars are an inch long. It’s not uncommon to get a can of cod livers from Europe and finding worms in the liver. So whether the cod liver oil is fermented or extra virgin there is a very good chance you may be getting fermented parasites and worms or some parts of them in your extra virgin cod liver oil. I know, they will say we filter it out. I would like to hear from the experts on this.
Whoa!! way gross. Hopefully the processor would be able to sort clean livers from parasitic livers?
Maybe another fisherman can chime in please?
cant wait to hear more i am a simple customer and have been in touch with WAPF, Sally and Daniel everyone on the loop answering questions. it makes me feel good people are not hidinbg but until this is solved I AM NOT TAKING any more cod liver oil….
can’t wait to hear more how do I suscribe for this
Sarah, Where does the fish come from? Does it come from Alaska? I’m scared of any fish or cod liver oil coming from Alaska because of the Fukushima radiation from Japan. Also, can you say what fish is used?
Thanks.
Those are questions for GPP to verify and answer directly. At the time I visited the facilities 7 or so years ago (I actually wasn’t even blogging yet at that time!), the fish (cod) was obtained from the North Atlantic.
From a Wikipedia web page (I know, they have their own issues).
“In 1992 the Canadian Federal Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, John Crosbie, declared a moratorium on the Northern Cod fishery, which for the past 500 years had largely shaped the lives and communities of Canada’s eastern coast. The interplay between fishing societies and the resources which they depend on is obvious to almost any observer: fisheries transform the ecosystem, which pushes the fishery and society to adapt.[2] In the summer of 1992, when the Northern Cod biomass fell to 1% of its earlier level,[3] Canada’s federal government saw that this relationship had been pushed to breaking point, and declared a moratorium, ending the region’s 500-year run with the Northern Cod….”
Sarah, I am disappointed. You should have taken the high road. Anyone involved directly with WAPF, or having a financial interest in WAPF or Green Pasture, should have the decency to recuse themselves of public comments until the promised response has been released from WAPF. I’m not saying you are wrong in your statement, just that you are wrong to have made it.
It was absolutely appropriate that I respond to the report as quickly as possible given that my readers were asking me to, this blog is completely independent of the WAPF and Kaayla directly challenged content on it relating to FLCO, and also because GPP is NOT a sponsor of this blog.
Also, I do *not* sell GPP as part of my Chapter Leader duties either contrary to rumors that are circulating.
I would agree with Sarah and go even further by saying that she has a duty to respond to her audience here, and as a member of WAPF. Additionally, if she said nothing, she would be complicit in her silence. Such a report, which goes against all previous reports, user experiences, expert advice, etc., cannot go unanswered by representatives in the community.
“The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.”
Or good women 😉
On blood level vitamin D testing….instead of attacking a product, why not consider that the serum blood level tests themselves may be inaccurate? Many people have commented here that they have lower vitamin D levels then before they started taking GPP….what if something more complex is going on here?
Please read the following GPP blog post and comments from Dr. Louisa Williams:
http://www.greenpasture.org/utility/showArticle/?ObjectID=7004&find=serum%20d%20levels&happ=siteAdministrator
Superb point Carrie! So glad that you dug that up. Not only do you show how limited – even useless – testing is, but you also show how vast Dave Wetzel’s information is on the Green Pasture website. He is being judged by people that have less expertise than him. His information has been out on that website, and nobody has ever disagreed with him or the other experts that comment there.
It saw Mr. Wenzel speak at a local WAP meeting. It was very interesting. The FCLO is not meant to be the be all end all miracle food supplement. It is healthy, but doesn’t supply everything for your body. He told a story about his child who took FCLO and was have teeth issues. The child needed more MINERALS to compliment the FCLO and the teeth improve. So if the FCLO alone is not helping you, maybe you are deficient in something else!
I do not have a solid position on this issue but some things in this report do sound “fishy” to me, and this is my subjective opinion since I do not have all the facts to form an objective one.
First of all, Dr. Schmid claims that he contracted heart disease from FCLO. How did he come to this conclusion? Heart disease usually has something to do with chronic inflammation, and chronic inflammation among other things may be due to excess sugar, a.k.a. carbohydrates or due to excessive consumption of polyunsaturated fats. Was his diet otherwise free from carbohydrates or any other polyunsaturated fats? And yes, taking 3tbs of any polyunsaturated fats per day may eventually lead to health issues. My body even reacts negatively to homemade mayo with monounsaturated olive oil (yet, I have no adverse reaction to very large quantities of butter).
Rancidity is another interesting issue. To a degree, I think any polyunsaturated fat will go rancid fast, but usually it’s something that one can detect by smell. When I decided to remove all processed foods from my diet, for some time I still kept unopened packages and containers of previously purchased foods like chips, pretzels and mayo (full of soybean or corn oil and also full of preservatives). When I decided to finally discard them I opened those packages and was horrified by the smell of rancidity (even just past or near expiration date). You can’t miss that smell, even strong fermented fish smell can’t disguise rancidity, and my nose is extremely sensitive to things like that, yet, I have not detected any smell of rancidity in GP products.
I can’t really testify for any benefits or lack thereof in GP oils because I have not been using them on a regular basis and have not noticed any difference and have not done any before/after tests. However, Dr. Daniel’s report looks like a smear campaign (I suspect some internal political war between Dr. Daniel and the leadership of W. Price Foundation) . Any vitamin/mineral supplement product taken in recommended doses would be useless at worst, yet I cannot imagine it being harmful.
GP products are expensive and I would definitely like to see some reassurances that they are worth the money I spend on them, yet, I would not jump to any conclusions based on the report that throws around unsubstantiated claims and refuses to disclose information about their sources.
Does anyone want to buy my 6 bottles of Green Pasture Cod Liver oil?
Everyone here should read Dr. Ron Schmid’s website regarding cod liver oil.
Two years ago I found the butter oil to be 75% butter wax and 25% ?
I make my own butter oil. One pound of raw unheated June butter in the Northeast (cows eating 100% grass) will produce approximately the following. 7 ounces of butter wax, 4 ounces of milk solids, and 5 ounces of pure bright yellow butter oil that taste great.
No need to buy butter oil. Just eat some good butter.
The only thing bad about butter is if you drop some you could slip and hurt yourself.
Which flavor FCLO do you have? and how long have you had them for?
Sounds like you’re making ghee. My understanding is that butter oil is not the same thing as ghee. A bigger problem for me is the sale of RAW butter is illegal in my state.
I am just wondering if WAPF thinks the EVCLO is any good or not… because really, if it is ok, then it should just be added to their list of okay products and then people can choose for themselves based on price/taste/benefits/whatever.
We have found WAPF principles very helpful and value Sally Fallon’s work immensely. I do however keep in mind that politics and so on can always play a background role and I do wonder, way back when, what happened regarding the break-off group of WAPF from the original Price-Pottenger foundation?
The EVCLO is listed under “Best” on the brand recommendations on the westonaprice.org website: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/cod-liver-oil-basics-and-recommendations/#brands