After an initial review of Kaayla Daniel Ph.D.’s report on Green Pasture Products, I felt it necessary to state my current position as a consumer and as a Board member of the Weston A. Price Foundation.
I know it is important to many of you that I weigh in on this issue since it is potentially so upsetting to those who have been using Green Pasture Products and giving them to your children as I have for years.
In this report, Dr. Daniel contends that the Green Pasture’s fermented cod liver oil and butter oil products are rancid and harmful to health. Furthermore, she claims that lab tests show that the fermented cod liver oil isn’t even from cod and is low in the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K2.
These are serious accusations indeed and ones that cause alarm coming from a professional as highly qualified as Dr. Daniel.
To give you some background, my relationship with Dr. Daniel began in 2007 when I met her at the annual Wise Traditions conference. I found her to be intelligent and good-humored … with a blog named The Naughty Nutritionist how could you be too serious, right? Over the years she has been a great supporter of the Weston A. Price Foundation’s work, serving on the Board most recently as its Vice President. She has written many articles for the Weston A. Price website and Wise Traditions Journal. Some of her articles appear here on The Healthy Home Economist website.
So, for Dr. Daniel to deliver a lengthy report that calls into question the integrity of one of the most highly regarded producers of nutrient-dense food supplements is a matter to be taken seriously. And I have. And, I can assure you, so has the Foundation.
First of all, let’s look at what we know by way of general background:
- Cod liver oil and butter oil were both used by Dr. Weston A. Price DDS in his research early in the last century and considered nutrient-dense foods high in the fat-soluble activators.
- Green Pastures has been producing and selling cod liver oil and butter oil since at least since 2003 when I was first introduced to the company. The fermented cod liver oil debuted in 2007, and I immediately switched my family to this product which we have been using ever since with stellar results. I know many of you have experienced the same because you have written to me about it.
- Green Pasture Product’s fermented cod liver oil has been tested by two independent labs – one in the USA and in the UK – and found to be free of rancidity while containing valuable nutrients. These tests served as the basis for the WAPF Board deciding in 2014 that claims of rancidity were unfounded.
- Many leaders in the Real Food community, including Foundation President Sally Fallon Morell, have studied these products in detail and toured the facilities (yes, I’m one of those bloggers Dr. Daniel says were given VIP tours – but what Dr. Daniel fails to mention is that I wasn’t even blogging yet at the time of my tour) and have been convinced of their authenticity and quality – to the point we have been using them ourselves and giving them to our children for nearly 9 years with excellent results – always in the proper dosage and never to excess.
- Two different laboratories have found mostly vitamin D2 in Green Pasture Products cod liver oil, and Dave was honest enough to share this surprising information with the public. Also, the extra virgin cod liver oil (Rosita) was found to contain mostly D2 by one of these labs as well. This is something that intrigues the Weston A. Price Foundation Board very much and there are plans in motion already to look into this further.
Secondly, let’s look at what Dr. Daniel claims in her report:
- The report makes damaging claims that the Green Pasture Products are rancid and therefore harmful and these tests were conducted by several unnamed labs using a supposedly superior testing methodology and equipment.
- The fermented cod liver oil contains average to low amounts of fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K2.
- DNA testing shows that the fermented cod liver oil doesn’t come from cod but from the Alaskan Pollock (considered a member of the cod family).
- The fermented cod liver oil tests for transfats and the most likely way this could happen is via dilution with rancid vegetable oil of some kind.
- The High Vitamin Butter oil may come from Argentina and also tests rancid.
- Vitamin K2 is not what Dr. Price referred to as “Activator X”.
Lastly, here are the initial concerns I have about this report:
- The labs used to run these tests are unnamed with the letterhead blacked out on the actual lab reports. This is highly unorthodox and is a major red flag. There should be complete transparency here. If the lab work is credible and authentic, the lab should be more than willing to put its name behind the data like is done for other scientific research. Dr. Daniel questioned the reputation and methods of the labs that were fully transparent and reported the fermented cod liver oil to be free of rancidity and high in the fat-soluble vitamins, so shouldn’t the labs which claimed they were rancid be closely examined as well? How do we know the tests weren’t run by a rival manufacturer actively seeking to do damage to Mr. Wetzel?
- Dr. Daniel cites Dr. Ron Schmid ND as one of the funding sources for the report who claims fermented cod liver oil caused him to contract heart disease (which in itself is a questionable claim since he is a sample size of one which is meaningless in scientific terms). In addition, by his own omission, he took excessive amounts of regular cod liver oil for many years (from 1979-2006) and then switched to fermented cod liver oil for another six years, again taking it in megadoses (1-3 Tablespoons per day … up to 9X the recommended daily dosage). This dosage equates to up to 20 teaspoons of salt or 75 glasses of water per day. Such extreme behavior that few, if any medical doctors would recommend, is not the fault of a product, but rather the fault and poor judgment of the individual taking it. It also indicates a potential lack of objectivity in the report that is concerning.
- The remainder of the report’s funding is not fully disclosed which raises another serious red flag. Were these other funding sources third parties who stand to financially gain from damaging results?
- According to a very reliable source, Dr. Daniel notified Dave Wetzel of her concerns regarding the fermented cod liver oil being rancid a year ago, and he responded with an invitation to fly her out to his facility immediately at his expense and spend as much time as she’d like to thoroughly investigate his methods. He took her concerns very seriously and had a number of tests done right away that he forwarded to her. Why Dr. Daniel didn’t respond to his efforts to address her concerns remains unanswered.
Being the professional I know her to be, Dr. Daniel would certainly understand my concerns and would welcome healthy, rigorous scrutiny of the lab work and methods used for testing. I look forward to more clarification on these issues in the coming weeks and months as well as as a point by point rebuttal by Mr. Wetzel. There are always two sides to every story.
In the meantime, given the excellent results I have observed in my own family consuming fermented cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil for the past 9 years, I see no concrete reason to make any changes until the claims in this report have been thoroughly substantiated with complete and utter transparency. I do very much agree with Dr. Daniel that more study is warranted.
The jury is still out on this and I, for one, am not going to knee jerk and abruptly change what has been working extremely well for my family for many years along with many other families I know.
I hope this summary of my thoughts helps in some way as you decide what is best for your own family.
UPDATES
The Weston A. Price Foundation has now published a lengthy response to Dr. Daniel’s report. Click here to review it.
Also, Dr. Chris Masterjohn has published an excellent rebuttal to Dr. Daniel’s report. Click here to review it. I, for one, have now decided to stick with the fermented cod liver oil as I have for the past 9 years based on this thorough analysis!
Trans fats in FCLO? Not so fast! Here are the latest test results.
More Information
Doctor’s Orders: Why Your Family Needs Fermented Cod Liver Oil
Fermented Cod Liver Oil: Myths and Truths of an Ancient Superfood
This reminds me of the big flap a few years back between WAPF and Dr. Mercola re: CLO and its vitamin A. As far as I’m concerned, there was never a satisfactory answer regarding that issue either.
I tend to want to agree with Dr. Daniel. She has put a lot on the line to question this product and IMPHHO she must have had her reasons/suspicions for doing so.
Let’s wait until it all comes out in the wash in about 4 years because that’s how long this will take, if we ever do get real answers. Dave Wetzel is talking lawyers where he should be more concerned about the science, since everyone seems to put so much stock in science. Personally, I don’t trust science because it’s for sale. Everything is for sale, at a price, so when Wetzel talks lawyers right off the bat, it makes me highly suspicious.
But, you know, that’s just me.
If you want to know why I question science and scientists, just take a gander at the book written recently by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick (a Scottish cardiologist) called Doctoring Data. What an eye-opener. You’ll never look at science or health or doctors the same way ever again, I assure you. Superb reading.
D. – Where is Dave Wetzel talking lawyers? I haven’t seen this yet. I hope it is not true. I hope he and Daniels hire a mutually agreed upon mediator and work the issues out without lawyers.
If Wetzel gets as slanderous with Daniels as she has with him, I may just boycott his products on principal. There is nothing like his FCLO on the market, but if he goes that route, it will not make me feel good about using the product anymore.
Mr. Wetzel, if you’re reading this, I pray you do this with dignity…for all.
Dave will never sink to Dr. Daniel’s level. I’ve never seen him behave in anything but a professional manner.
I have learned a lot from Sarah and I will always be grateful for that, but I truly am concerned that there is and will be damage done to people who use this fermented cod oil,. I am certainly not going to take it again. It is standard operating procedure not to give out the name of the labs who did the testing, unless they are paid much more money than Dr.Daniels and the others who paid for the testing could afford Go to Dr Daniel’s web site
and read her rebuttal of Sarah’s article about all this. And I agree with Isabel Natrin and others who said that Dr Daniels could not have taken this step lightly, and with out knowing what it impact it would make. I, personally cannot follow any money trail here. Wait till you read what Dr Daniels says about Sally Fallon’s idea of the proper dosage of FCLO for people like herself and others who are so hard working and under stress. Ok, I have my doubts about this being printed but I had to try, I am worried about people continuing to use the stuff, till there really is an independent test done by Weston Price.
Hi Joy, the WAPF has already independently tested the FCLO for rancidity and this occurred last year. It was done by a highly reputable lab in the UK and was the basis for the WAPF Board voting 7-1 against futher testing and that Dr. Daniel’s concerns about the product were unfounded. http://www.westonaprice.org/uncategorized/concerns-about-fermented-cod-liver-oil/
Testing will be inaccurate because it’s gone to a progressive stage of rancidity that tests low for the given markers of rancidity. I operate two labs one in Madison, WI and one in France. I’ll be conducting seperate tests in my field.
The WAPF is coming out with a statement shortly that clarifies rancidity testing and the different worldviews on the subject within the scientific community.
My other half of 6 years (Dr Mercola) and I sure won’t EVER be taking it and with all the people who write me asking if they should take it? I wouldn’t give CFLO to my worst enemy in 1000 years. If I have to write back every last person who wrote me asking about it I will.
Oh and I don’t do any fish oils so it’s not like I’m recommending some alternative either.
PS several people who used to work for Weston A Price posted on my FB too that they’d never take the stuff again and showed actual pictures of rashes they got from taking CFLO (I don’t know what brand) All those things I’ve stated are facts.
The WAPF has *never* claimed that the fermented cod liver oil was appropriate for every individual. This is why a number of brands are recommended on the WAPF CLO page: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/cod-liver-oil-basics-and-recommendations/#brands
She’s a vegan apologist. Dr Mercola while not vegan took FCLO and laid out in the sun on vacation, ate pastured meats, etc and claimed his vitamin D levels went too high. Remarkably he was able to offer better choices by selling krill oil and selling tanning beds. Lol.
Both he and his girlfriend seem like lovely people with many good things to say, but they are just people that aren’t 100% correct at the end of the day.
Yes, I read WAPF’s response to the public but it is a very different response that was sent out to Chapter Leaders—Sally Fallon Morell sent an email forbidding you to publicly discuss any of the issues I and others have raised about FCLO under threat of being removed as a chapter leader. No “negative comments about products we recommend” allowed or there will be legal action. It sounds more like a dictatorship. It is very sad to see as I thought WAPF really cared about the health of people. It is very evident that it does not when a dictator threatens lawsuits if you say anything negative. This is a free country. Why don’t you stand up for what is right??
Pat, you are misinformed and believing gossip and spin posted on sensationalist blogs. The message sent to the Chapter Leaders made no mention of legal action or a “no discussion” policy. The message simply stated that slanderous criticism of competing brands is not allowed and that it is the same for exhibitors at the Conferences who cannot denigrate competitors .. only talk about the good things in their products. It is of course fine to say “I find this brand works best for me,” or “My children like this brand the best.”
By the way, this policy is not new. It has been in place ever since I became a Chapter Leader in 2002. It is also exactly the same as it is for raw milk producers … raw milk farmers are *not allowed to criticize* competitors or they are removed from realmilk.com Also, Chapter Leaders are *not allowed* to criticize, denigrate, or gossip about other Chapter Leaders or they are removed as Chapter Leaders. *** This has been the policy for well over a decade **** The WAPF tries to stay positive understanding that others have differing opinions which are free to be shared and discussed, but not in a critical, negative, slanderous manner.
I’m grateful I’ve used it for 9 years (and regular cod liver oil because that was all that was available before that for another 5 years) and will continue to do so. 3 children, no antibiotics for going on 17 years, all straight teeth and no autoimmune issues or other chronic problems. Pretty good track record I would say that is pretty rare these days. Of course, we *always* take it in the appropriate dosage.
Sarah, I feel the same about my family. Very healthy family. I have 4 small children and none have ever been to the hospital or doctor for anything besides routines checkups. Never had any antibiotics, etc. However, we could also argue that we do other things that could be contributing to that health. If we were eating the same way as the rest of society and the only difference was “FCLO”, then that would be a pretty convincing argument. I’m sure that at least part of the reason we enjoy that health is because we try to be very cautious and aware about what we put in our bodies. Is it possible that that the health we experience has noting to do with the “FCLO”, but is simply a results of all the other choices we make? Is it possible that “FCLO” actually has been damaging our health, but all our other good choices has still protected us from the negative effects of the “FCLO” ? Just some things I’ve been wondering 🙁
I have only used one bottle of Green Pastures’ FCLO, and it was the butter oil blend with cinnamon flavouring. My experience was that it helped immensely to energize and heal me, and I detected no rancidity. The very first dose gave me misgivings because it caused me to belch all day. (I very rarely belch, otherwise.) The aftertaste was cinnamon, not fish. My friend advised me to have the dose with food. I did not always take her advice, but never experienced adverse effects thereafter, anyway. The fish flavour was detectable, especially to the nose, but never offensive. Overall, I found this supplement pleasant to use, and I never believed I was using an inferior product. I would absolutely buy more if I could afford it.
Thanks for your response. It seems pretty reasonable. I too wish that Dr. Daniel would disclose the labs and scientists – although there are a few names in the body of the report. The funding sources should be of no concern unless labs and scientists are in the habit of taking requests and churning out results to suit clients. If the lab results from this report are suspect due to funding source, then any lab report paid for by WAPF would also need to be suspect, as there are a lot of sponsor and advertising dollars at stake, and any lab test paid for by Green Pasture would be doubly suspect as besides the money at stake, there is also the issue that they control the sample whereas anybody else has to pull a bottle off the shelf.
I’m super concerned about the transfats detected, the possibility of vegetable oil, and the DNA test showing pollock. Transfats are so bad that even the FDA has finally taken action against them and given manufacturers until 2018 to get them out of foods. We don’t use vegetable oil even in cooking – we sure don’t want it in our health food product, much less a one supposed to be of the highest quality for which we are paying premium dollars. Yes, pollock might be cod, but requests to the FDA to be able label product as cod are still “under review” and cod is not an acceptable marketname for pollock. Ethical issues aside, labeling pollock as cod would therefore be illegal.
I would like to see more transparency from Green Pastures as far as sourcing, methodology, and the like. We demand that in everything. We want to know everything in the world about where our dairy and meat and veggies come from. Is it a heritage breed or not? What are are eating and/or fed, how and where are kept. Is it ethical? Is it sustainable? Organic? Wild? GMO? We want to know if it is ethical. Some people even want to know if the animals are happy. It can get ridiculous and a skit in Portlandia of a waiter reading off chicken bios for a couple to select for dinner highlighted that. But this is a hallmark of the real food movement. We read labels. If I advertise eucalyptus globulus from China, but deilverRoman and deliver eucalyptus globulus from Australia, it doesn’t matter that they are both eucalyptus oil and even the same exact species and that the oil that I provided was the pricier of the two. I have an ethical responsibility to deliver exactly what I offered. If I can’t then I need to let my customers know that, and offer them a refund. GP has been vary vague about sourcing. We source some herbs from China. Some people don’t like that. But we tell them anyway. We just have to explain that China has vast regions where modern farming techniques, seeds, pesticides and fertilizers hasn’t arrived yet. Many still aren’t happy, but most do understand. I can’t think of any proprietary or intellectual property type reason for not disclosing sourcing unless there are things you really don’t want your customers to know – as in, the customers wouldn’t like it.
Interested to see how this turns out. We took the very expensive FCLO for 2 full years while on GAPS and then all of a sudden all 3 of us taking it couldn’t tolerate it anymore, meaning symptoms of food cross contamination that had disappeared started returning. If it was just one of us in the family, I could see blaming it on a food intolerance cropping up. But the fact that all 3 of us were having an adverse reaction told me all I needed to know. I’ve become a cynic, though, for ANY supplements because I have found they all seem to have loopholes for safety or cross contamination issues.
I have mixed feelings about all of this information. I’ve got serious concerns about Dr. Daniel’s allegations but also serious concerns about her report and how there is no transparency whatsoever. Having said that, I have a question I’m hoping this community can help me answer.
I’ve been taking GP FCLO for 3 years now, including one pregnancy. My almost five-year-old has been taking it that long and my 18 month old has been taking it for a year. In all that time, I have never experienced a bottle of FCLO that I perceived to be rancid. Am I understanding this correctly that if it was truly rancid, I would know by the smell and consistency, etc? Because all I’ve ever smelled is fish! Now, I don’t particularly like that smell because I don’t like fish, but I assume that is not what others who are claiming rancidity are referring to. As far as a burning feeling in my throat, I have definitely experienced that a time or two but I also take the cinnamon flavor and assumed that was the reason.
I am asking all of this because I’m not convinced yet that I should stop taking it. My family is rarely sick (my 4 1/2 year old has never, NOT ONCE, been to the doctor for an illness!). My children have never had a single ear infection, a case of diarrhea or the flu. I also feed them very well, but I have to believe FCLO plays a role. So for me, like another poster mentioned, the proof is in the pudding. But I’d like to make sure I’m assessing this rancidity claim the right way.
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Hi Susanna,
I’m not sure about the answer to your question. I always just taste the fish, as well. I’m guessing that if we could all taste/smell the rancidity…it would have been more obvious to more folks without lab results needed.
Personally, I’m more concerned about the possible mislabeling. If pollock is used, trans fats are added, and essential oils are used, this should be labeled. Green Pastures and WAPF encourage this product for pregnant women, nursing mothers, small children and we all should know exactly what is in that very expensive bottle.
Sorry, I was actually responding to Christina’s post and typed the wrong name.
Hi Christina,
I just wanted to share a little input. I’ve gotten both the FCLO and the Fskate liver oil (for variety) from Green Pastures.
I kept forgetting to take it and I ended up with half a bottle a year later. The skate liver oil was still perfect, same smell, same taste (I like fish so I think it’s great). But the FCLO had a prominent odor that told me it was rancid. It was a big change. Not so much a fishy smell but just a typical bad oil smell.
I think the FCLO went bad but the skate liver oil didn’t because I accidentally wiped up drip with my finger on the lip of the FCLO and I contaminated the bottle. I noticed the smell shortly after that.
Definitely chalking that up to user error. 🙂
So that’s just an FYI, if its bad… it will smell much different. Kind of like bad nuts.
Hi Sarah, Can you please tell me by what measure/cross-walk you arrived at this statement from your post?
“This dosage equates to up to 20 teaspoons of salt or 75 glasses of water per day.”
What scientific fact do you base this equation? That 20 tsp of salt = 75 glasses of water = 1-3 Tablespoons FCLO ?
For the record, we used to take GP FCLO but simply couldn’t afford it as our family grew. I’m following this closely, and truly hope reasonable, professional behavior abounds from all sides.
The average person is recommended to drink 8 glasses of water per day. 72 glasses represents 9 times that amount. The suggested dosage of FCLO is 1 tsp per day …. 3 TBL would be nine times that amount (1 tsp = 1 TBL). Hope that helps.
Why the governments of the whole world can be wrong about cholesterol and fat, but a much smaller organization like the WAPF cannot be wrong about FCLO?
I’ve never tried FCLO, but it is most suspicious that there is only one producer, who claims so much purity and precission. We have to scrutinize everything, one just can’t trust a salesman or a politician. We cannot even trust scientists, as they depend on salesmen and/or politicians.
I know it hurts a lot to hear that one may have been had, and that one may have been recommending people something not-so-good. It is even more hurtful when one has given or done what is being criticised to your own family. How many cardiologists suffer the pain of hearing criticism to low-fat and low-salt diets after they have been recommending those interventions to many patients, even to brothers and sisters. We all suffer when we hear something awful.
But, what if it turns out we are in error, and we choose remain in error?
There’s people who claim that eating too much fruit will get you fat. There’s people who claim they eat a lot of fruit and are very slim (even dangerously slim). Some of the people who eat a lot fruit try to terrorize others by asserting as matter of fact that eating butter or lard will get you fat and cause a terrible heart attack. Some fat-eaters also commit the sin of terrorizing other people with the dreadful carbs. Terror is always wrong.
We have to tread carefully, or all the good things will be contaminated by some silly mistake.
As a concerned WAPF follower, I want to know what really happened. Were Sally and Kaayla writing their book together and Kaayla would cringe in anger every time she caught a wiff of cinnamon tingle on Sally’s breath? So much so that she whipped out a report without going over her findings with her first? Did she storm off during certain points of the brainstorming and kick her own rear with her heals to temper her anger?
Then we have this Dr who claims FCLO gave him heart damage though he imbibed the stuff like fine wine. It wasn’t the dosage, no, it was because it wasn’t a different brand.
Somewhere Matt Stone is clapping his ultra warm flippers together with joy over this news while smiling with his Hamburgler grin. Any fish oil that goes down in flames is a good thing to him.
Meanwhile his sidekick Garrett will probably blame this entire fiasco on potatoes polluting the minds of WAPF leadership.
Note: I know none of these people personally. I buy their work on Amazon and admire their celebrity from afar.